Time to Trim Teachers

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Elizabeth Conley, Jul 10, 2012.

  1. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    This article is correct, though I don't think the author spells out the problem well enough. The problem is that schools hire "teachers" who do not teach. They hire "teachers" to run special enrichment programs, when they need to hire teachers to accept responsibility for classrooms full of students. An average elementary school with about 125-150 students in each grade generally has about 5 extra teachers and 10 extra "assistants" who float around, accomplishing little. If they put the 5 extra teachers in classrooms and replaced the 10 assistant with 5 more teachers, they'd reduce average class size from 25-30 to 18-22.

    Given the budget cuts, eliminating half and sending the other half to classrooms makes the most sense.
     
  2. RB

    RB Founding Member

    You can cut all the teachers you like but until the underlying problems are dealt with the outcome will be the same.
     
  3. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Well, what do you identify as the "underlying problems?"

    I don't think cutting teachers improves education. Far from it. I think reducing class size is a proven winner. It does improve kids' educations. Trouble is, schools hire teachers but don't use these extra hires to reduce class size.

    You can point to other problems. I can too. Ironically, I don't think "bad families" are as common as teachers complain they are. Bad communication between teachers and families is a problem.

    What other problems can you identify?
     
  4. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I think teachers have had their ability to teach compromised with canned lesson plans, teaching to achievement tests, and such. I don't disagree that a smaller class size is generally better but I think there are larger issues at play.

    Teachers are limited to how they discipline their students. I firmly believe that swats should be allowed and the teacher gets to call the shots.
    Parents in some cases tie the teachers (school system) hands and in other cases take no interest in the education of their children. Having educational mandates coming out of Washington should end and all educational requirements/standards should be local and state issues. I think we need to get the cops out of schools. What kind of atmosphere does that create when armed people are patrolling the hallways? Just the tip of a very large iceberg.
     
  5. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I would underline what Elizabeth says here. People are generally not aware of the hordes of non teaching employees at public schools: the teacher's assistants, the food program people, and the army of administrative staff to handle compliance and other issues. That is where much of the school money goes.
     
  6. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I agree with those as things that need to be fixed. On the side of the kids, the problem is due to non motivated kids from troubled families who provide no support or encouragement for school achievement, a subculture where studying is despised and its more fun to just do video games, etc. Perhaps one way with dealing with these things is to identify these kids and move them quickly into alternative schools where they can learn trades, so their negative effect on everyone in the academic track is minimized. We have a one -size fits all approach in education where it is clear that advanced education is clearly not in the cards for a sizeable portion of these kids.
     
    Monica47 likes this.
  7. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Bingo! And when those of us who attended overseas military schools compare those schools with the ones we attended stateside, this is one of the factors that made them so good. Losers tend to wash out of the military, and enlisted personnel below a certain grade level (I think it was E-4 or E-5) couldn't have their families relocated to overseas assignments. Other students were usually U.S. embassy brats or embassy/military brats from other countries. The "non-motivated kids from troubled families ..." are mostly missing from those schools.
     
  8. Use of teaching methods known to be useless and even detrimental (non-phonetic reading, for example).
    Fragmented structure of school day.
    Reduced physical activity, more sitting still in desks.
    Excessive repetition and busy work.
    Excessive use of the phrase "good job".
    The compulsory nature of the whole thing.

    Just a few things that come to mind.
     
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  9. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    You'd be surprised how confident elementary teachers are that phonics are evil and detrimental to children's education. They've been brainwashed into believing this, and no amount of proof will move them.
     
  10. Crazy. I just taught my homeschooled 6 year old to read using a phonics-based book that was designed for parents to use to teach their kids to read after school failed to do the job. It was foolproof.
     
  11. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Yep. Every homeschooling parent I know uses phonics. It's easier than falling off a log, and it always works.
     
  12. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    California went head over heels for Look-See reading in the 50s & 60s.

    I attended a couple months of 3rd grade at a San Diego area (Lemon Grove) school while my father was training at Vandenburg. I swear I was the only kid in that 3rd grade class who could read.
     
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  13. RB

    RB Founding Member

    My father worked at the federal prison in Lompoc (actually closer to the AFB than town). I went to Vandenberg Middle School, just outside the gate of Vandenberg, and also Cabrillo High in Vandenberg Villiage. We lived pretty close to the AFB and I got to see some real nice rocket shots (and explosions) while we lived there.
     
  14. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Yep.

    Want to cut the school budget? Stop coddling the kids in ways that cost money - like having a custodian clean up after them instead of handing them a mop for "detention."
     
  15. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    fonix werkt fer mi
     
  16. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    The fact that many of us were able to immediately understand what you wrote, is yet another reason that phonics is a valid teaching process on a fundamental level. It can help someone that has a decent/advanced vocabulary and reading comprehension able to communicate more effectively with those that are less in command of the vernacular.
     
  17. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    If only there were an "ethical phonics" that would allow the teaching of why certain behaviors are unacceptable... like forcing the elderly to remove their incontinence undergarments, or small children to remove their leg braces, or convincing diabetics to expose their medical equipment to untested sources of RF and X-rays...
     
    TravelnMedic and CelticWhisper like this.
  18. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I learned to read via phonics. I think its a good way to teach reading. I saw that line I posted on someone's T-shirt and never forgot it. It is funny.
     
    Rugape likes this.

Share This Page