To defend against terrorism, TSA employees trade airport for classroom

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Lisa Simeone, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    To defend against terrorism, TSA employees trade airport for classroom
    Best comment left there, by "jmjral":
  2. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    You scared me for a minute, Lisa. I was afraid this was going to be an article about TSClerks "screening" schoolchildren.
  3. jtodd

    jtodd Original Member

    Technically, they do already, sometimes on their own dime and time.
  4. N965VJ

    N965VJ Original Member

    Sure, let's waste resources on useless college courses at the taxpayer's expense while the core mission of finding weapons, explosives and incendiaries continues to fail at alarming rates. :rolleyes:

    Oh, they've been showing up at schools already:

    Little Susie gets fingerprinted

    Sing-along with screener Tom

  5. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    Don't prisons also send inmates to college? Just seems fair I guess given the relationship.;)
    barbell likes this.
  6. FaustsAccountant

    FaustsAccountant Original Member

    Yeaaaah. I'd file that under the same box as the 'one night a week' for a 'university' degree places. (where "University" is a name not equating to accredited higher learning.)
    Every company I've been associated with takes zero weight on those. And my boss and fellow department heads take this view: You can't be bother to complete a real college, university or vocational/trade school?
  7. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I am currently participating in this program. Anything that helps your employees learn, gain higher education credits, and then applies some of the knowledge gained in those courses can only help the workforce. Some here complain that the workforce is sorely under-educated, yet the organization taking steps to offer it's employees the opportunity to beef up said education level is met with scorn. Most of these courses are offered through local universities and community colleges that are on par with state sponsored educational facilities.
  8. Are they teaching you about chemistry? Anatomy and physiology? Multi-culturalism? Just curious.

    ETA: What about the case law on administrative search doctrine? The constitution?
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  9. N965VJ

    N965VJ Original Member

    Not me. Screening people and belongings for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries is not rocket science. All that can read and communicate in English may apply, as long as they have the aptitude to grasp simple concepts such as what IDs are acceptable. Let's not get distracted by playing Intelligence Analyst while at the same time the Red Team failure rates are off the charts. The never-ending stream of diversions and PR stunts will do nothing to improve the TSA's failures.
  10. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Currently the curriculum is divided into 3 classes, intro to Homeland Security, Intel, and intro to CBP, essentially the classes give the basics for each segment indicated. Once the classes are completed, there are other core courses and electives required to obtain a degree. I am certain that the humanities and basics required for any degree from a reputable establishment will be required to obtain said degree, it will just have the DHS moniker or title. it is simply providing some focus for folks interested in the process/reasoning/means for the different areas of DHS.

    There are some segments that have covered the Constitutional aspects of what is going on in some situations (mostly pertaining to structure of government and the basics). These are classes designed to give a basic idea of what each area is about, the history and some of the operational basics. If this is offered near you (and it is offered at many universities nationwide), and is open for you to take, I would recommend that you attend - the intel class has been very informative, and the intro to HS was pretty informative as well.

    There is a partial listing of colleges at this site:

    And while not all of the universities listed are considered traditional or established univiersities, many of them are. I attend a local community college that has a campus that rivals many of the state supported 4 year universities (their campus is gigantic, and their facilities are better than many other places I have visited - it is actually quite ridiculous).
  11. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Also, Rugape, as I've said repeatedly, I'm not against the TSA and its abusive procedures because of the educational level of its employees. In fact, I've consistently argued against ridiculing people based on perceived education. I don't use terms like "rent-a-cop," "pizza deliverer," etc. I find that line of argument obnoxious. The world is full of "well-educated" assholes and "lowly-educated" decent people.

    But being abused by a well-educated thug is no better than being abused by a poorly educated one. I have no objection to employees anywhere trying to better themselves through education. I do have an objection to paying for those employees to do so while knowing that they can go on to abuse me or my fellow citizens.

    The TSA is an abusive agency. It's nice that not Every Single Person in that agency is abusive; pass the champagne. But the agency as a whole -- thanks especially to John Pistole -- is abusive. So yes, I'll ridicule "moving up the TSA ranks" through college courses.
    DeafBlonde, jtodd and phoebepontiac like this.
  12. jtodd

    jtodd Original Member

    Ah, so continue to abuse, dehumanize and deny citizens rights while "supposedly" bettering yourself at the expense of those you abuse. Yes, it is what I thought it was, and I don't approve in the least.
  13. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I commend you on the attitude about ridiculing, it only lowers the threshold of the discussion. We may disagree on policy all day (and on some issues we will continue to be at odds, that is normal, my significantly better half would tell you that in her eyes, it is a requirement to disagree on some things), but I make statements based on regulations (as far as I can) and my personal opinions based on my experiences. I just find that to constantly disparage someone that does not have letters at the end of their name - simply because they do not have those letters is silly in many cases.
  14. RB

    RB Founding Member

    The TSA workforce is clearly poorly trained but this is not the training needed. TSA core training is the problem. What else can explain the "photography is illegal" comments from so very many TSA employees? What else can explain the continuing reports of people having their genitals felt up during screening unless that is really how it is suppose to be done? What else can explain the continuing civil rights violations that TSA employees regularly commit?

    No, there is absolutely no need for college level training if TSA employees cannot handle grade school level information.
  15. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    Education is a business, schools will provide what people, or their employers will pay for. There is nothing altruistic or noble about any educational institution, witness the Penn State scandal. There are other commercial schools like Lincoln Tech, TESST and University of Phoenix that rely heavily on Government sponsored loans or employer paid tuition. Note that University of Phoenix is a subsidiary of the Apollo Group and trades as APOL on NASDAQ.

    Consequently "courses" like Homeland Security, Intel, and Intro to CBP spring up to get in on the fear mongering gravy train. This, like a lot of other certification programs, is just a way for the sponsoring institution to turn a buck.

    The negative aspect of this for the student is that these sorts of "courses" only serve to further trap them by providing education of value to only one employer. The detrimental societal effect is that these courses legitimize and reinforce negative behaviors and perspectives that further erode trust in Government and those who carry out these perverse policies.
  16. jtodd

    jtodd Original Member

  17. Fisher, you articulated exactly what I've been struggling to put into words. Thank you.
  18. FaustsAccountant

    FaustsAccountant Original Member

    Fisher also summed up what I wanted to say, but better.
    Many of students who come to me from those schools have a lot of confidence talk-at the start but lack so many basic skills and habits I need at the minimum once we start getting down to business.
    Their money would have been better spent at a community college or trade school.
  19. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Correct me if I am wrong, Rugape, but I believe you have expressed that there are some portions of the screening process with which you disagree. Is completion of the course that you are taking going to help you correct those problems? Is completion of the course going to help you correct any problems you see with training of other screeners or with management at TSA? Of course it is not.

    Who sets up the course curriculum? Does the curriculum need to be approved by DHS? I'd be willing to bet that nothing is taught in any course that is not approved by DHS. IOW, these courses are pure propaganda for DHS/TSA.

    If there are federal funds involved in any manner, you can bet these courses are going to tow the DHS line.

    You failed to answer phoebepontiac's question about being taught about the Constitution. I would ask another: are any of the courses discussing cost benefit analysis of airport security or of any DHS/TSA program?
    barbell and Lisa Simeone like this.
  20. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I do disagree with some aspects of the screening process, and anything that helps you to learn and advance will at least give you a better opportunity to make positive changes in your workplace. If I complete this program and recieve the degree associated with it, it could open the door to a higher position in the workforce - thus allowing me to focus on the things I see wrong with the workplace. Any course sponsored by any organization is going to provide at the least, the basics they are wanting in the system. The intro to HS class was pretty good stuff, it covered historical comparisons, world views and generated a ton of enlightening discussion. DHS may give you the basics they want, but any class that has students will generate opposite povs and allow for the learning of new information. These classes do not teach the actual screening process, but rather give the theory and application process and give analytical assessments on things that are done right, and critiques on some things we have done wrong (as well as things others have done right and wrong). It is very similar to many of the courses in different public safety/criminal justice programs, just with a different core of information.

    As for not answering phoebepontiac, I posted this earlier:

    There are some segments that have covered the Constitutional aspects of what is going on in some situations (mostly pertaining to structure of government and the basics). These are classes designed to give a basic idea of what each area is about, the history and some of the operational basics.

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