Trayvon Martin shooting

Discussion in 'Civil Rights & Privacy' started by Lisa Simeone, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. Frank

    Frank Original Member

  2. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I think I know who's hankering for a role as defense attorney.
     
  3. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Bond revoked, Zimmerman ordered to surrender by Sunday ...

    Fox News: Judge revokes George Zimmerman bond in Trayvon Martin killing

    Prosecution is getting bent out of shape over the $135K Zimmerman collect for his legal defense and apparently placed in his attorney's trust fund for that purpose.

    If he'd spent it up front on living expenses & bail money, I bet they'd be whining about fraud & conversion ... my guess is that this will fly back in the prosecution's face.
     
  4. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    It should, but it won't. And I expect to see federal charges after he wins his case in Florida.
     
  5. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    yep. Now that DOJ has wound up their case against John Edwards, they have resources to go after someone else prominent in the news.
     
  6. YouTube

    YouTube Member

  7. YouTube

    YouTube Member

  8. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Have any of you gang been watching much of this case on the tube? This has been just about the worst presentation of a case by prosecution I have seen in ages. In a Murder 2 case, you have to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the event occurred according to the filing (intent, all the elements listed to qualify for that charge). There was reasonable doubt after the first prosecution witness - at least to my mind anyway. Not to mention that the Lead Detective stated that he felt that Zimmerman was being honest with him, and that any variances found in his story were what is normal as a person recalls more of the incident in more detail as they get further away from the actual event. The medical examiner has been a nightmare for the prosecution, he comes off as prickly and (again in my mind) less than up to snuff on his duties and office requirements. The fact that they did not photograph the entire body during a homicide autopsy is inexcusable from a forensics POV. This case is just so bad on so many levels it begs to be written about in legal circles for years to come. Based on what I have seen and read, the best that the prosecution can hope for at this point (and legal eagles correct me if I am wrong here) is a reduced conviction to either involuntary or voluntary manslaughter (I am uncertain of the exact wording that would be required in that locale). I don't think that justice is truly being served in this case due to a terrible presentation by the prosecution. What happened between Martin and Zimmerman is a toss up, none of us were there, but the prosecutions failure to present a decent case is just terrible.
     
  9. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I agree that none of us were there so don't know what really happened. Doesn't the prosecution have to prove "beyond a shawdow of doubt" for any conviction, even one of a lessor charge. I think the jury will have doubts based on evidence presented.
     
  10. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    If I am not mistaken, to get the lesser charges, they have to meet the critera for that particular charge. For Manslaughter charges, they have met the basic threshold for the major parts - the two of them had a confrontation, Zimmerman shot Martin, Martin died as a result - based on my rudimentary front line understanding, that meets the basic threshold for a manslaughter conviction - but there are so many variances in the conviction and sentencing guidelines that I am not up to speed on, that I could be wrong. At this point, based on the evidence I have seen and the writeups and news publications, there should be no way that a conviction on Murder 2 comes out of this case. Of course, any jury trial is a crapshoot regardless of what type of a case is presented, so I could be wrong. I would be intereseted in one of our legal eagles to comment on this in a more legalese form. Sunny Goth maybe?
     
  11. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I would hope the jury would refrain from such horse trading.

    If you got jumped by some fellow and killed him in self defense, not getting convicted of murder but getting convicted of manslaughter and doing time for it would be no consolation at all. If they can't prove otherwise, Zimmerman's story should stand and he should walk. So far, the testimony either confirms Zimmerman's story, or fails to definitively discredit it.
     
  12. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    The threshold of proof required in criminal matters is "beyond a reasonable doubt", and yes, they do.

    The defense doesn't have to prove anything; the defense need only create doubt as to the prosecution's case. In a badly bungled prosecution (e.g. the Ruby Ridge debacle) the defense might simply rest and expect an acquittal.
     
  13. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Agreed that it is no consolation for the individual on trial, and it is not much of one for the family members of the person killed. I am for justice, and this has been a gross miscarriage IMHO, because the prosecution has presented nothing that would justify even filing these charges at this point. Now, before anyone gets upset, I have no dog in this fight, I am simply interested in justice, and it does not look like it is being done here - not because a conviction of Zimmerman appears unlikely based on what I have seen so far, but because the case got this far in the first place. A Manslaughter charge would have been much more appropriate, and something that the prosecution probably could have gotten even with the load of crap they have presented so far. If the lead detective is on the stand and one of the first few phrases out of his mouth are "I did not believe that the defendant was being untruthful to me during the interview process", "I recommended a charge of Manslaughter, not Murder 2" - the prosecution is shanked, even though they struck those comments from the record. I too wish that the sentencing guidelines were more defined or limited in what can be done. I am interested to see what the defense does at this point, there is already the spectre of doubt hanging around at this point from the prosecutions own witnesses, they (as Mike says above) simply rest and expect the aquittal.
     
  14. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    I never agreed with the charge of murder 2. I always thought it was manslaughter.

    I've been watching this case on TV, not because I want to but because it's always on when I go to the gym. I think it's been a disaster for the prosecution.

    I don't agree with the concept of armed amateur night watchmen hazing teens. That's the biggest thing that was wrong with Zimmerman's behavior. He and his goofy property owners association created the conflict that led to the violent confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin. That's why neither the property owners association nor Zimmerman should get of Scott free - but Murder 2? I don't think so.
     
  15. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Should have kept the politicians out of the process.
     
    Frank and Elizabeth Conley like this.
  16. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Politics has no place in the courts, but sadly we have gotten away from taking the best and brightest legal minds for judges, and have political appointees for most (if not all) of the important Judgeships now. We also elect a slew of more regional Judges, that opens that up to becoming the same popularity contests that our national elections have degenerated to. Political officials should also refrain from making statements about ongoing investigations favoring one side or the other - merely stating they want Justic to be done, and they want to wait on the official investigation before commenting further... So how is that working out for us nowadays? I remember when I was a kid, I was fascinated by court proceedings and would sometimes go with my dad just to watch a trial, and the vast majority of commentary from city/local officials was along the line of "We are not at liberty to discuss an ongoing investigation, we will follow every lead and do our best to reach a just conclusion" (actually that was a bit more flowery than it would have soundeed back then... A more concise relay would be "We ain't gonna make no comment at this point, but we have some good uns workin on this case, and we will do our best to find the person responsible"). It truly disturbs me how completely different the proceedings are in courts now as compared to then - and my father said the same thing about when he was young. It seems like in most parts of our lives, there has been a complete drop off of decorum and tradition and in many ways respect of the system. Of course, that brings in the question of how badly broken our system is at this point, we seem to stray so far from the "Innocent until proven guilty" paradigm, that is is only seen that way once in a while,a s opposed to every court proceeding.

    Side note on just how bad the Judge elections have become in my region, we had a local judge that ran a commercial on tv that was in a similar theme to the Dukes of Hazzard... A judge... using a Dukes of Hazzard themed commercial.... trying to win a seat on the bench. Check it:

     
  17. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Not to mention that DA's, at least around here, are elected. I believe that a persons political beliefs will always be in play.
     
  18. FliesWay2Much

    FliesWay2Much Original Member

    Did he win???
     
  19. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    As a matter of fact, yes. He now sits on the NC Supreme court for an 8 year term that began in 2012.

    His career has been one that does lend itself to the "tough but fair" claims, but the fact that he used commercials like the above in order to win a seat on the NC Supreme Court is a sad statement of how our elections on Jurists has deteriorated into popularity contests, rather than electing the person based on their record.
     
  20. RB

    RB Founding Member

    The prosecuter certainly seems to have done a poor job of presenting the case.
     

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