TSA brags about finding 6 grenades at ABQ

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Examiner: 6 hand grenades found in checked luggage by TSA agents at Albuquerque airport in the past week

    KOB: TSA finds 2 grenades in checked baggage at Sunport (headline says 2, photo shows 6)

    Has this band of retarded misfits EVER found a real grenade?

    When was the last time a real, live grenade turned up in our civilian population?

    Think about it for a minute. If live grenades were found with any degree of frequency in the civilian populations, replicas would be illegal or painted pink. This whole charade of finding fake "grenades" and even evacuating airports for them is just a sham to make gullible people feel thankful for the continued harassment by a legion of morons.
    phoebepontiac likes this.
  2. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    If real grenades were that easy to get a hold of some would have been tossed at some TSA screeners by now.
    phoebepontiac and DeafBlonde like this.
  3. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    Too much potential to frag an innocent passenger. Window warfare is much more fun, and targets the freedom fluffer.
  4. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Just one comment about grenades, in an xray, they almost always look live and require the interaction of a TSSE to clear. While they almost always turn out to be completely inert (I seem to recall some with the firing mechanism intact, but none with the actual HE in them), they still have to be cleared properly before anything else can go on.
  5. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    Then you clear it and move on. Don't brag about finding things that aren't an actual danger to flight safety. These kinds of stories only add to the perception that TSA is useless and tyrannical.
    phoebepontiac likes this.
  6. RB

    RB Founding Member

    If the spoon is still in place then the grenade is essentially safe. This would be visible on an xray or visually. If the spoon is not in place it would have already exploded if real. Move the bag out of harms way, continue screening others, and investigate what the object is. There is absolutely no reason to stop the screening of others except for the fact that TSA has to trumpet these minor accomplishments.

    I am amazed by the lack of common sense displayed by TSA.
  7. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    I'm disappointed, not amazed. Lack of common sense is practically a job requirement at TSA.
  8. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Or continue to trumpet them & keep reinforcing how worthless TSA is.
  9. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    If Albuquerque is such a terrorist target why do they host the the nation's largest balloon ascension every year?

    "News" published to benefit bunch of moronic thugs trying to justify their miserable existence.
    KrazyKat likes this.
  10. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Balloons have aleady been used against us as terror weapons. I'm surprise TSA isn't confiscating balloons and anything resembling balloons or bearing pictures of balloons .
    KrazyKat likes this.
  11. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I also understand the thought process about letting the items go in checked baggage once they have been cleared, I personally would have no problem with that (if there is no way for the item to be used). Come on RB, there are ways to rig grenades just like anything else, all it would take is a little piece of semtex or plastique wired to a cell phone underneath the grenade (inert or live) and it still could be problematic. I am all for keeping the flow moving, but if you have an item that is a possible threat item (remember the bag of sand and dino bones here in GSO a few years ago?), it needs to be properly cleared, and safety precautions are a part of that. Another point to consider is that local regions have laws against realistic replicas "for the greater good" - I disagree with those laws for the most part, but there are some replica laws out there.

    As for letting stuff like this go in carryon baggage, that is a no-go. Any item that could be utilized to create a panic situation (such as grenades, fake bombs, realistic looking gun replicas) should not be allowed in carryon. I understand the process has changed for the air crews when dealing with a possible hijack scenario, but you are still talking about a mass hysteria situation, and most likely injuries to some people that can be prevented by simply keeping stuff like that out of carryon (and I am not talking about the epic beatdwon in store for the person creating the incident, I am talking about the heart attacks, and injuries sustained in either the rush to deal said beatdown, or created when the pilot takes action with the controls of the airplane).

    Soooo, for the record, my position is live boom = nogo, realistic replicas in carryon = nogo, cleared non-threat items in checked baggage = go. Don't even get me started on the "toy guns and swords" crap that has been in the media, there is no reason for that unless it is a "realistic" (read - holy crap that is a handgun/grenade/bomb/dagger) replica.
  12. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member


    The only TSA employees who might have common sense are the ones who're working for the TSA so as to satisfy their deep-seated needs to steal from people, grope them, and shout at them.

    The rest only work there because they're incapable of holding down a real job, because they have no common sense.
  13. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Those are your co-workers.
  14. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I didn't address whether to let any item go on the airplane regardless of it being in checked baggage or carry on. I addressed only a few points which you mostly blew off.

    If a grenade is seen in baggage and the spoon is in place the item is almost assuredly safe. The bag can be moved to a safe place and investigation undertaken. The other passengers can continue to be screened without major disruption of the screening process.

    Highlight one: If it is rigged to explode by remote means then why think there will not be a means to do so when found since finding one of these should be almost guaranteed even with TSA screeners doing the screening? Not only are the odds so remote to be laughable but whoever finds it probably has taking their last breath.

    Highlight two: Would safety precautions not include protecting as many people as possible from a potential threat? What better way to do so than get the suspect item out of the area? All that is needed is a containment system. Why impact a checkpoint, inconvenience 100's of people when other means could be used. Besides you TSA screeners are on the front line of the war on terror so suck it up, grab the item and take care of business. A few losses are acceptable in my book. Heck, TSA has plenty of people to spare.

    Highlight three: So, what does that have to do with my comment?

    Highlight four: OK, for the most part I'm ok with this except TSA cannot define a realistic replica. Otherwise we would not have the numerous stories of items being confiscated like purses, toy hammers, Disney plastic swords, and so on and on and on. Either that or TSA screeners are apparently not capable of retaining any real training and it is proven weekly.

    I would be a damn sight happier if TSA got back to the basics. Screen for dangerous items. Stop all the (expletive deleted) of ID checking, interrogations, unproven and useless Behavior Detection crap. Stop the Gate Rapes, checking beverages purchased inside the sterile area, and all the other chicken (expletive deleted) TSA seems so proud of doing. Screen cargo and screen airport workers, that is where the biggest security threat comes from but is entirely overlooked by the TSA brain trust.

    TSA claims it doesn't have the resources to do those needed things. The reason is clear, TSA has branched out into so many useless and non-security related areas that TSA has squandered its resources. Why are TSA employees at football games, political events, or any other venue that is not transportation related. For those reasons alone TSA should have its budget reduce by 50%. Then perhaps a little focus could be brought to the job at hand.

    You work for a crappy agency, ran by crappy managers, burdened with crappy policies, and staffed with crappy substandard employees.

    Is it any wonder that the public has serious issues with TSA?

    If there is any doubt of what I am saying just speak up and I will clarify.
    KrazyKat likes this.
  15. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Highlight (by you) 1 - I do not want someone that has not had formal or standardized explosives training handling possible explosives (admittedly, most scenarios involving a hand grenade style item are simple enough to take care of with basic precautions), it is a recipe for more people dying for a less than stellar reason.

    Highlight 2 - I am all for having blast containers handy at the checkpoint and baggage areas, excepting that, any possible explosive threat IMHO should not be handled by those that are not trained for it.

    Highlight 3 - Just like handguns, if there is a local law against the items, we are to inform local LEOs and they are to handle it from there (once it has been cleared or the EOD guys say it is under their care for disposal).

    Highlight 4 - I agree that the non-realistic replica problems are silly. The problem with defining realistic replica would be the "govspeak" or "bureacrenglish" that would go into it. I wish we would have a more definitive answer on what constitutes realistic in the eyes of TSA, written in plain english so the vast majority of people could understand it - but that is not something I see coming up soon.

    Agreed on the basics, if we focus on the core items (WEI) then we would have fewer challenges with the public. I have always thought the LAG ban was problematic to the point of next to impossible to implement, and a perfect resipe for conflict with passengers on a nearly non-stop basis. Locally, we have always screened all cargo on the passenger jets, but I am not completely up to speed on the status of that nationwide (I believe we are lagging in some areas, but it is better than it was before). Already on record as not having any objection to TSA and airside workers being screened entering or exiting the sterile side - I have also pointed out that I understand why that has not been placed into effect by HQ due to the exhorbitant cost factor at many locations.

    I can not comment on the being at football games, as I have no information other than the news cycle saying that an attorney took some photos of them near the Vikings game this past weekend. I know there are some mass transit venues at Vikings park right near the stadium, so perhaps they were near that (just spitballing, I could be completely wrong, like I said, I have no hard information on it)? Many times, other

    **Federal organizations are involved in events and request assistance from TSA, that is a decision handled at a much higher pay grade than mine. However, since the Secret Service is part of the DHS umbrella, seeing them work cooperatively at political events, kind of makes a bit more sense to me than before, especially if they request that assistance. It makes more sense to have someone making $30k a year doing bag searches than it does having someone making $50k or more. Not saying that is what is happening, but I could see that being the case if TSOs are seen at political rallies and such.

    ** I do not know if this is the case, these are simply ideas that popped into my head while reading this, and they somewhat make sense to me.
  16. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Would you not agree that if TSA was to find an IED at a screening point that it would likely be detonated rather than having it safed, especially at carry on screening points?

    Point one; then TSA screeners should not be hand inspecting any luggage or other items since the purpose of this inspection is limited to finding WEI.

    Point 3; I could give a rats (expletive deleted) what local laws call for. Has nothing to do with the conduct of the checkpoint. Move the threat to a safe place and continue screening.

    Point 4; No, the problem is not "govspeak" but the inability of TSA employees to act responsibily when faced with these things. It goes back to the lack of quality of far to many TSA screeners.

    Numerous reports have been made of TSA being at sporting events, political events, and other areas outside of transportation. I don't care what agency or department TSA is in, these are not TSA areas of responsibility and TSA should not be there.
  17. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I will agree that it is most likely what will occur based on what has happened in similar discoveries in the past around the world.

    We will have to agree to disagree on this point.

    We are bound by local laws and SOP (at this time) states that we are to report items of that nature to local LEOs. This is another one of those decisions made way above my pay grade.

    I understand that point, and to an extent I agree with you. However, the larger problem is the non explanation in basic terms. If I have the rules in print right in front of me, then someone "less motivated" to operate with common sense, would have said common sense spelled out for them. There are many ways to write the rules that leave little room for interpretation, couple that with an increase of direction to use common sense and it would right a goodly amount of the challenges in these situations.

    If you read ATSA, TSA is designated with (loosely titled I might add) protecting "US Transportation" - which is an all encompassing statement (seriously, that is about as all encompassing of a statement as I have read in legislation in years). I am not certain that this was the original intent of the legislators, but it is the way it is written. By that definition, TSA would still be within its designated area of responsibility if it were operating near or on any format of transportation indigenous to the US (be that roadways, buses, trains, aircraft/airports). Now I am pretty certain that it was not the original intent for that to be the case, my personal interpretation is that TSA was so loosely designated so they could set the regulations for all of these methods of transit, and primarily focus on mass transit as a "workforce". Since the beginning, the primary focus has been on the aviation sector, with small co-ops with other mass transit systems. It has been increasing steadily over the last couple of years, and will probably continue to increase in the current paradigm - meaning more VIPR type of operations at mass transit locations. In conclusion, technically speaking, if TSA is operating at any location that has access to transportation systems, they are under the described areas of responsibility. I know that a great deal of that will boil down to semantics arguments on both sides of the issues, but the print version backs up the vast majority of the incidents you read about due to the mass transit location. The others, I can not comment intelligently on because I do not know what the TSA personnel were doing there.
  18. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Rugape, if a screener is not competent to handle WEI then I fail to understand how they are qualified to do a hand search for same.

    As far as your procedures when finding an object those steps should be invisable to others passengers. I'm not saying to not doing them.

    Transportation is transportation. That is not a presence in a football stadium or other arenas. Typical empire building by TSA idiots like Pistole.
  19. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I'm not terribly worried about terminal dumps for stupid reasons pulled by TSA. That will resolve simply from the economic damage this stupidity causes. In time, the right chain will be yanked. Nor am I convinced it is possible to train TSA employees much about explosives; given who they hire and how they train, not gonna happen. It is clear that such unqualified persons are used for hand searches of WEI precisely because they do not expect to find explosives ever and their usefulness is COMPLETELY tied to the deterrence effect.

    It is offensive and uncalled for to use these people for anything other than air transportation. They are neither wanted nor needed. It is especially galling to use them at non transportation venues. That is NOT their charter. If you're worried about using an expensive resource (qualified LEOs) vs the cheaper but still overpriced pizza box recruits, hire people off the street at minimum wage to molest the paying customers of your d*mned event.
    phoebepontiac likes this.
  20. A city bus runs "near" to my house. Would my house be then within the TSA's scope? That bus runs by and stops at (sometimes on the property of) many commercial establishments I frequent. Does that mean the TSA is within its scope to scan and frisk me as a condition of me entering my grocery store? If what you are describing is that all encompassing, you are describing a fascist organization.

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