TSA brags about finding 6 grenades at ABQ

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Technically speaking, they could probably make a case (keep in mind, this is personal analysis, not something put out by TSA or DHS) for the area around any of the stops for that bus - especially if they have intel indicating that a credible threat to that type of location exists. Realistically, I do not see them doing VIPR stuff for much past mass transit lanes (such as a subway hub, bus hub, etc). I am almost certain there is a mass transit station on Vikings plaza, and that the VIPR was most likely there, but again, that is simply what I think, as I have no specifics to back that up. Again, I do not see the situation you describe as something that is on the way primarily because it is a wrong thought process, secondarily because it would crush the economy, thirdly because there are not enough people to do what you describe, fourthly because the government does not have the money. This is just not a feasible thought process for the next 20 years at least, because there has not been the type of entrenched dogma and programming of the public that would be required (there would be way fewer dissenting sources out there if this were the case). We Americans have a stubborn streak that is famous, we are (in generalized terms) polite, helpful and good natured... right up until you start telling us what to do en masse (or threaten us as a whole). Look how quickly the differing sides came together after 9/11, everyone was helping little old ladies across the street again, democrats and republicans were drinking in the same establishments, congress worked together for what they thought was the best direction at the time, people went out of their way to do decent things. Fast forward to now, there is a huge divide in this country because there are more and more situations of the recognized governmental structures "telling" people what they can and can not do. Our history is rife with things like this, where the government overreaches the needs/desires of the nation, and the nation begins to show fractures along the edge, and begins to force societal corrections on the recognized governmental structure. I believe we are reaching a point where the self correction will begin to come into play - how that comes about, I am not certain. I am pretty certain that armed "revolution" is pretty much off the table for the foreseeable future (unless they really force the guns issue and start storming Johnny citizens place and collecting them from law abiding citizens under force, then you may see one), and there does not seem to be a seismic shift in political attitude, so we may not have reached critical mass for the correction yet.
     
  2. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Or just the TSA, which meets your criteria as-is. Charged with violating American citizens, staffed by thieves, thugs, and morons who're stupid enough to believe they're serving a "greater purpose" in performing these violations.
     
  3. Most of what you said makes sense to me (whether or not I agree is another story). IANAL, but this part doesn't look right at all. How could a VIPR team do anything on private property without the permission of the owner or a search warrant? Are they not bound by the fourth amendment? Once again, if they are not, America does not exist anymore.
     
  4. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Bureaucratic self-correction (self-preservation) is underway if suddenly WTMD are okay.
    Money, people, where might they be? If the Constitution is no issue, might returning troops from Afghanistan get re-deployed as VIPR storm troopers? Or do we the people come up with a much better plan for them consistent with a sane-security, non-fascist state? Whoever can address the (un)employment questions, the economic shock, while allowing these overfed organizations to save face, might be able to be heard right about now.
     
    phoebepontiac likes this.
  5. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    Protective custody in prison is a form of security. Why not have TSA & DHS throw all of the fraidy cats who want this BS in PC and leave the rest of alone?
     
  6. You know, it would probably be a lot cheaper...
     
  7. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    Build Coventry. But then all the liberals would scream "concentration camp."
     
  8. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    But they asked for it.
     
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Coventry?
     
  10. Frank

    Frank Original Member

  11. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I didn't realize Coventry was generally used for that. :)

    In the forum world, it's called "Tacky goes to Coventry". It's a vBulletin mod that allows you to isolate your problem users in a corner so that can interact only with each other; the problem group and the non-problem group are invisible to one another.

    I could have used it here if such a mod had existed for XenForo, but TSOWrong would have been very lonely.
     
  12. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Technically speaking, the TSA has some semblance of ability to either regulate or be active physically in any area that is defined as part of the transportation realm of the US. The vast majority of these locations are never going to be an issue because they serve no viable security issue or possible issue. Secondary roadways, footpaths, most of the forms of transportation we use on a daily basis are all going to remain untouched by TSA due to the reasons mentioned before, and the lack of a security reason. I do not see TSA active (or becoming active in the future) at locations that do not have a mass transit tie in. Most mass transit tie in locations (read bus stops, hubs, subway stops, hubs, things of that nature) are on at least quasi governmental spaces (or the majority of them are based on my reading), and as such the private property angle does not come into play. I have not heard of them setting up a VIPR on a location such as "Joes Bar B Q Shack" (although they may go there to eat after the VIPR), and do not anticpate that type of operation - there is simply not enough credible intel indicating that there is a viable threat to "Joes" that would call for that type of operation, not to mention that Joe may take umbrage to them showing up in the first place.

    Earlier, I was merely pointing out that anything having to do with the transportation systems in the US, technically fall under the ATSA and TSAs purview.

    * Again, these are simply my opinions, not anything that I have read legalized or in print.
     
  13. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Changing the way a workforce thinks about security protocols happens all the time. If the requirements for screening change over the next year (such as shoe removal, LAG ban, AIT, etc), I can guarantee you that it would be something that has been discussed many times at HQ before it is placed into effect (most likely years of discussion). The only time I have seen large scale change in a short period of time was over the LAG ban, and that was based on intel and an active situation - that came about almost overnight. One caveat would be if Congress collectively orders changes to the list of prohibs or the screening process, and I do not see enough willingness to cooperate in Congress right now to make that a viable situation.
     
  14. RB

    RB Founding Member

    The problem is that TSA seems to use alchemy as a basis to decide what might be dangerous or not. Let's take shoes for example.

    In December 2001 Richard Reid boarded a flight in Paris with what is termed a shoe bomb. Since then (and before) in the US alone there has never been an attempt of deploying such a device. That would be somewhere around 7.3 billion travelers screened (not to mention others entering airports) since and not one shoe bomb before or after December 2001 yet TSA in all its wisdom forces innocent travelers to remove shoes, endangering their feet, slowing down the checkpoint, and in general making the checkpoint deck completely unsanitary.

    And lets take a look at the LGA ban. That whole deal is based on a non-working plot that never happened. No telling how many billions of perfectly harmless items have been <stolen and> reduce to rubbish at the hands of TSA all without any basis in real science or security. I would hate to know the financial penalty that this ridiculous TSA policy has inflicted on the public.

    Don't come here and try to tell us that anyone at TSA has the ability to think!
     
    DeafBlonde likes this.
  15. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    "Stolen."
     
  16. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    An increase in VIPR activity will result in a corresponding drop of public support for VIPR. If they just showed up with dogs, moved on through, were transparent, people wouldn't pay much attention. People do not want to be frisked, questioned, or otherwise [shaken] down by government pukes, period, and they will not long put up with it.

    Such indoctrination and programming has no part in a free country. and yes, I'm aware that this has been done quite a bit since at least the early 1900s with propaganda supporting the Federal Reserve Act, World War I, and so forth. All things that ended up damaging in a lasting way our republic.

    The move to centralized control, central planning, was part of the zeitgeist of the 1920s, 30's and 40's. It is seen very easily in the totalitarian regimes of the USSR and Germany, but very similar things, less overtly violent, were occuring in other western democracies, esp Britain and the US, with control being exerted over production, wages, and other aspects of common life. Centralized planning and control have gradually reached the point now where the US government and it's banking proxies, directly control the home mortgage market, the bond market, the stock market, and the commodity market. The Nobel Prize winning Austrian economist Von Hayek in his Road to Serfdom book details why this happens, what the result of this central planning is in terms of greater and greater control being needed and an increase in ruthlessness to impose the will of a few over the very diverse wills/ends of the many.

    I'm not a big fan of violent solutions. But then again, I see no evidence that the government intends to listen to the people. I see a greater desire on the government's part to impose by force its own solutions, such as what TSA did when it implemented the strip search machines and offensive groping deliberately avoiding the required consultation phase with the people they were supposed to be helping, the traveling public. I see it in Feinstein's new gun bill which intends to impose draconian controls and intolerable data gathering on huge numbers provided she can get the simple majority she needs. I see no evidence of government pullback, but an increase, and expect to see it in earnest when our currency and financial system continues to deteriorate, with corresponding social unrest.
     
  17. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    There is much evidence that TSA employees are incapable of thought - especially the continuing threats by TSA wanks who claim that photography is prohibited.
     
  18. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Yeah, that too!
     
  19. You have been letting some of your statist agenda slip here, Rugape. Some of your wording is very troubling in this thread.
     
  20. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    I am not sure that I understand what you are referring to.
     

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