TSA kills 520 people a year

Discussion in 'Railways, Highways, Waterways' started by Doober, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    The sick one is you. There are many factors that you failed to account for in the cause of motor vehicle accidents such as driver fatigue, driver error, mechanical malfunction, poor road conditions, poor judgment by one or both drivers, etc. To pin the cause of motor vehicle accidents on TSA screening policy is ludicrous. Intelligent people look at facts objectively before drawing any conclusions.

    Sorry, sweetheart, but the sick one is you and others who attempt to make a serious argument out of this article. It reveals a lot about folks who try to push this wet noodle.

    [Coached by Mike to remove some quoted material that I moved to the moderation forum. The "sick" comment itself -- still quoted -- I would have allowed to stand, & Bart's reply remains in its entirety.]
  2. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    The proximate cause of the accidents might be driver fatigue, error, whatever, but many people (my wife & myself included -- we've driven about 15 600-900 mile trips this year avoid dealing with the blue-shirted goons in the airports) simply would not be on the road were it not for TSA. Flying has been safer than driving for decades -- any time you cause a significant portion of the population to shift from flying to driving, you are going to have vehicular casualties as a result of the government policy that causes the shift.

    In case you missed it, it's not us who did the study. The study was conducted by staff & faculty at Cornell, who I'm sure are much more adept at policy analysis than most people in this forum.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  3. VH-RMD

    VH-RMD Original Member

    and MUCH more intelligent than any cretin who draws wages from your sick federal airport groping agency...
  4. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    There are many studies. I'm not so willing to give them the credibility that you apparently are so generous to give.

    If you are truly objective about this, then you would consider that many accidents are caused by driver distraction such as texting, eating or drinking, applying make-up or brushing hair, adjusting the radio or other similar device, or just plain talking with passengers. Add to that driving while impaired by alcohol, drugs or prescription medicine (in spite of warnings to not operate machinery) or just plain old fatigue. Consider unsafe driving conditions whether by weather, poor road maintenance or poor vehicle maintenance as well as driver inexperience or driver slow reaction time/poor judgement to certain situations.

    No, my friend, you come across as too desperate to blame TSA when you embrace a study like this without asking serious questions about cause and effect.
  5. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Bart: You're refusing to distinguish between the immediate cause of an accident vs. why those people are on the road in the first place. Some people will do dumb things wherever they are. If they happen to be in a car instead of a plane, those dumb things get people killed. You can pull a paper bag your head and deny all you want, but the bottom line is that any government policy that causes a shift towards automobile travel from safer modes will result in greater casualties.
    Lisa Simeone, barbell and DeafBlonde like this.
  6. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Wow why am I not surprised to hear that, and it's truly sad to see such classic signs and symptoms of dissociative and anti-social behaviors.

    Karma begets Karma and pays in spades!
  7. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    Exactly. Assume that on average, people do at least one stupid thing per day. Granting that people, as a rule, do stupid things, we're then left to account for the potential impact of those stupid things based on context.

    Doing something stupid whilst on an airplane can lead to airsickness, uncomfortable social situations with fellow passengers, or a royal beatdown in the case of making people think you're out to hijack the plane.

    Doing something stupid whilst driving can lead to other drivers flipping you the bird, traffic tickets, collisions, or an early grave.

    (Note that much of this has to do with the fact that one is not in control of the vehicle in one scenario, and is in control of the vehicle in another. Pilots doing stupid (expletive deleted) up front could have far more disastrous consequences but we have a reasonable expectation that pilots are trained and possessed of sufficient self-discipline to keep their stupidity at bay until a point in time at which they're not currently flying a plane.)

    Because the potential consequences of idiocy are far greater in a car than in a plane, and because driving has already proven, many times over and over a period of decades, to be more dangerous per mile than flying, it cannot be denied that context absolutely matters. Plain and simple, stupidity behind the wheel is more dangerous than stupidity in the air, except on the part of a pilot which, as has already been explained, is sufficiently uncommon as to be statistically irrelevant.

    Because context matters, and because driver stupidity is more harmful than airline passenger stupidity, and because people are driving more nowadays as a direct response to TSA molestation, TSA can be said to be responsible for 520 deaths a year because they are forcing people (by conscience and not by physical intervention) into situations where inevitable human error carries far more deadly consequences than it would in the situation which TSA has rendered so undesirable as to be a non-option.

    In summation, as I said before, it's ironic. TSA was created to save lives and it's costing them instead. The interesting thing is that 520 people equates to what, 2-3 full 737s? Considering how uncommon air terrorism is in the first place, and how few documented attempts there have been since <DEEPSCARYVOICE><WAGGLYFINGERS>nine eleven</WAGGLYFINGERS></DEEPSCARYVOICE>, namely Richard Reid and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, TSA is effectively costing more lives each year than it even has a chance to save.
  8. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    LOL. OK. If you say so.

    So, tell me, do people who comply with TSA screening policy also die in car accidents even though they fly commercially? How do you account for the deaths of commercial travelers who rented cars at their destinations and still died? Is TSA policy to blame for that? What about the TSOs and/or other TSA employees who are killed in car accidents? Was this also the result of TSA screening policy? And how do you account for those who never fly commercially yet still die in car accidents? Could their deaths have been prevented had they flown instead? Is avoiding the hassles of airport security screening the sole cause of these 520 deaths? Were other factors considered such as divorce, job loss, illness, anger, impairment, distraction, etc? You truly believe that these 520 lives could have been saved had they only gone to the airport instead.

    Amazing. Truly amazing.

    Good luck with that.
  9. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    It's impossible for people without anti-social behavioral disorders to remain employed by a gang of thugs and clowns like the TSA.
  10. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    I'm going to accept this comment as online nonsense and emotions overriding reason. I would hope that words on a computer screen would never be the cause for physical violence. But your recent comments have set a trend. Is there any reason I need to be concerned about you and your partner? Please be reasonable in your response because it sets a tone. Just say you're blowing steam and we can both forget about it and remain "friends."

    And that's all we need to say about that.

    Fair enough?
  11. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Condescending and uncalled-for. Particularly in the context of this thread and his job.

    Nobody has done this. Not anyone in this thread, not anyone at TUG, not the original study, not anyone. No one has said, is saying, or will say that the TSA is to blame for car accidents. We're saying that the TSA is to blame for the fact that more people are driving. And when more people are driving, there are more car accidents.

    Laugh away. Correlation isn't causation.

    But Mike has already explained all these things several times.
    barbell likes this.
  12. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    We weren't discussing any of those things, so at the moment you're batting 1.000 in the Red Herring Competition. Definitely looks like you'll make it into the finals.

    When we think you're ready for it, we'll give you some scissors (plastic, rounded ends, blades < 4") so you can cut some holes in that paper bag.

    Then maybe we'll try again: We are discussing those who in the past would have flown but who are now driving instead, and the increased fatilities and injuries that occur while those miles previously flown are now driven.

    If you are too obstinate to understand the basic issue here, there's not much we can do.

    In the meantime, please walk carefully until we get those eye-holes cut into your paper bag. We don't have a budget here for padding walls & corners.
    DeafBlonde and barbell like this.
  13. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Pot. Kettle. Black.

    We're not going to budge from our positions. I can see that. I'll just go away laughing at the construct of this flimsy argument. :rolleyes:
  14. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    You say that as if we care whether you laugh. You can feel free to go away laughing, and we'll go away continuing to apply legal, social, psychological and political pressure to damage and destroy your employer. Pretty simple.
    Doober and barbell like this.
  15. RB

    RB Founding Member

    TSA may not be on the top of the list politicians are talking about but I believe they all know the TSA issue is coming to a head.

    There is nothing more important than our individual freedom from government oppression and TSA, more directly DHS, is very representative of that issue. The people employed by TSA are oppressors. They may not be willing to own up to their part in this but the fact remains. We owe it to ourselves and all people who travel to make TSA as much of an issue as we can.

    I don't think I can say how I feel about TSA employees here but be sure I don't hold them in high regard as I believe they dishonor the United States and our Constitution.
    Mike, Doober and barbell like this.
  16. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Same thing used to be said when I joined the Army back in 1977.
  17. RB

    RB Founding Member

    You should have tried it about 10 years earlier.
  18. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    One thing we do do here at TUG is spin long chains of irrelevant replies off into their own threads in Never-Never-Land. We recognize that it's normal for a conversation to wander and tend to allow that as long as it comes back to something resembling the original topic.

    The dicussion of the daily suicide rate will continue here: Humerous Rate of Suicides per Diem
  19. N965VJ

    N965VJ Original Member

    Of course, ten years later that had changed.

    Now, where's the movie about hot shot screeners keeping America safe, complete with Kenny Loggins soundtrack?

    Time to do some of that pilot stuff, Mav! :p

  20. RB

    RB Founding Member

    A real shame that the F14 has been retired. What a flyer!

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