Video TSA pat down Denver Airport.

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Fisher1949, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    So, if these morons can't understand that recording is allowed after two years how can they be capable of providing airport security? A puppy trains faster than this.
     
  2. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I still think it proves that TSA is saying one thing to the public and something entirely different to TSA screeners.
     
  3. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Was there ever any question that what the TSA says and what the TSA does are completely different?
     
  4. Monica47

    Monica47 Original Member

    If you are are just "doing your job" and aren't doing anything wrong then why do you have a problem with someone filming you? The TSA lady doing the pat down says on the video that she didn't feel "comfortable" being filmed while patting down this man's mother - why would that be? If, as an employee, you are following the rules then you shouldn't feel "uncomfortable" doing your job.
     
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  5. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    She's comfortable groping people as long as her relatives, friends, and children can't see what she really does when she's "working."
     
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  6. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Rugape has told us more than once that he is unaware of any direction by TSA to interfere with people taking pictures. I would like to believe him but the preponderance of evidence clearly suggest otherwise. The only other likelihood is that TSA hasn't taken any action to train TSA screeners in this matter.

    So either TSA is not properly training employees, which is likely in any event, or we haven't been told the truth. Either way it is clear that TSA screeners think taking pictures is against some rule and TSA needs to address this for once and all.
     
  7. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    If what the clown in the video says is true about "the communication" they received about filming causing a disturbance or affecting the screener's job they could forbid it, then what we are seeing may be part of a probing action by either an airport manager level (FSD?) or higher to find ways around the obligation to allow filming of these rubdowns.
     
  8. RB

    RB Founding Member

    I have a real hard time hearing what is said in videos when background noise is present. Will have to wait until I have a set of headphones and try to get the dialog.
     
  9. Ha. In the process he caught the smurf frisking next to his mom cop quite a feel of the gentleman he was violating. What a bunch of assclowns.
     
  10. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    Every direction and training pertaining to video and/or pictures in the checkpoint has been the same as what is on the main TSA page. It doesn't bother me in the slightest if people film, I even make certain to ask them if they need help because of carrying the device making the film - but that is me. I can't speak for nationwide, but here at GSO I have only heard the same stuff that is on the page at TSA.gov. I will outline why this is one of my biggest pet peeves.

    1. The regs state clearly that they can film
    2. The SOP states clearly they can film, and we have training on it every year
    3. If you are following the SOP, then what is the problem?
    4. We work in a public forum, for the federal government, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, get over it
    5. Just because you may have a personal aversion to being filmed, does not mean you can refuse to do so - you draw the paycheck, do your bloody job and get over yourself
    6. Just in case one and two didn't outline the law well enough for you, photography and filming are legal in public forums - as established by many previous court cases
    7. If you simply do your job, and be professional, the passenger will be done and gone with a minimum of fuss, and they will be happier in general.
    8. Really? What are you 8 years old now? Holding your hand or a bin up to block someone filming? Grow the (expletive deleted) up.

    I can give you no reason for these incidents. We are trained on this every year, and as new hires, there is simply no excuse.
     
    nachtnebel likes this.
  11. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Do you think it's the training that is inadequate, or that your co-workers are simply incapable of absorbing the simple fact that photography and videography are not prohibited?
     
  12. RB

    RB Founding Member

    How about giving us the chapter and paragraph reference where the SOP says this.
     
  13. Rugape

    Rugape Original Member

    You know that I can't do that, SSI regs and all that. However, since HQ has posted that it is SOP, I can mention that it is in the SOP.

    My biggest problem is, why does this keep happening? We have all seen (trust me, the TSOs have seen them just about as much as you guys do, because we have family and friends email them to us and ask what the rule is or WTF is going on) the youtube vids where someone is clearly off script, and not just TSOs, it includes LTSOs and STSOs and in some cases TSMs. Why would you want to create a situation where one doesn't exist? Some of these vids are simply people filming as a part of vacation or having fun with the person that was selected for additional screening - why give them the impression that they are doing something wrong, when clearly they are not, and this is by the regulations and training we all have on a repetitive basis! Some of the folks taking vids are out to get that confrontation and make a point - why would you give them that next youtube clip, when it is not what the regs say to do? I can understand if someone is newer, and in their OJT process, making a mistake or not being 100% aware of the SOP, that is what the OJT time is for, to make certain that they are up to snuff before you turn them out on their own on the floor - but in that case, the OJT trainer should step in and correct it. I can give you no explanation as to why this keeps happening, training, attitude, lack of awareness all could be the problem, but I see no indications of any one of those being an over-arching factor. I talk regularly to folks at several other airports, in all ranks (TSO all the way to AFSD), and almost uniformly their response on vids and photography is almost identical to mine, so it does not seem to be a break down in the training or awareness. By process of elimination, that would seem to leave attitude, but my parents and several other family members fly quite often and they have had no trouble except in one case, and that was because they had an oversize LAG. Once it was explained to them, the attitude factor was gone on both sides (admittedly, that is a tiny fraction of a percentage point of the experiences, but you would think that they would have had some problem if the attitude was prevalent among a large selection of the workforce). I am just not certain that any one factor is the primary reason, or to even cover what Caradoc said above, I do not think it is an epidemic of untrainable employees or inadequate training. I can simply not serve up why this continues to happen - and that is something that frustrates the crap out of me, because the regs on vids are not rocket science, and they have been clearly disseminated and posted in the public forum for all to see.
     
  14. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Perhaps it is somewhat analogous to the reasons why some police officers confiscate cameras and/or arrest persons filming them. The motivation is either/or or some mixture of fear of being caught on video doing something wrong or unappetizing, or an inflated sense of their priviledge of privacy (don't you film ME, d*mn you). I can empathize with that a tad: I wouldn't want some camera on me like that. The problem is that the nature of their jobs DEMAND this type of openess. It sucks, but you chose the job and you can choose to leave it.

    Until the consequences are brought home quickly (immediate termination, just like for theft), I don't think you can get this aspect of human nature trained out. I do believe it will require the threat of immediate termination though. and the reality of it.
     
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  15. jtodd

    jtodd Original Member

    This issue doesn't require a long term study to determine the root cause, this isn't rocket science here. They attempt to violate peoples rights regarding recording because they feel they can, without repercussions, as proven by the lack of any TSA response to the contrary. They already violate the rights of the American people nearly every minute of time they are working at an airport security screening point. The step to violate peoples rights for their employer, to violating peoples rights for their own reason, whether it be a desire to show power or the desire to not be filmed groping people, is a very small one indeed.

    Agreed nachtnebel. The fact that we have yet to see any real response from the TSA regarding these illegal acts and the criminals committing them furthers their belief that they can continue with impunity. Until the TSA reacts publicly and punishes them, or a citizen takes them to court for violating their rights, this will continue.
     
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  16. RB

    RB Founding Member

    No, I don't know that you can't do that.

    How could stating that Photography is Permissable, SOP 6-2, or whatever convention used by TSA, compromise security? It wouldn't and you know that as well as I. Regardless, the photography policy has nothing to do with TSA security, nothing. It is just another way for TSA to keep the upper hand and keep the public in the dark about misconduct by TSA employees and blocking or interfering with peoples rights to record is clearly misconduct and should be cause for termination.


    I would suggest, and the evidence supports my position, that TSA employees are in general terms incompetent. Secondarily, TSA doesn't hold its employees accountable and you and the rest of TSA workers know nothing will be done when engaging in misconduct.

    When you work for a slimeball agency your fellow workers are likely slimeballs too!
     
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  17. If what you're saying is true about TSA not having an actual secret policy disallowing filming, there are only a few possible reasons, all of them likely in this case:

    1) The TSA employees are low IQ and cannot retain basic information. This is likely here because the clerk referred the filming passenger to tsa.gov so that he could read about filming checkpoints being against the rules, even though tsa.gov says filming is permitted. This does begs a question -- why is a security operation we're told is so critical that we may need to let strangers stick their hands in our pants and feel our genitals being operated by flunkies who can't retain information? You can't even get a labor job at a temp agency if you can't retain information.

    2) Individual checkpoints are being operated as mini-mafia operations, each with their own individual requirements and demands from passengers. This would help explain the rampant thefts and sexually abusive situations that are more prevalent in some checkpoints than others. I could see this also the case here, as the female clerk didn't seem to care about being filmed until the other clerks made a case of it, and then she offered a very calm and scripted "I'm not comfortable with it." Then she proceeded to do the grope, most of it caught on camera anyway. She wasn't uncomfortable, she was following the directions of her fellow employees. There appears to be a coordinated (i.e. mafia style) effort at this checkpoint to disallow filming, which we have seen plenty of times before.

    3) Clerks know the rules very well, but they operate with blatant disregard for passengers and with self-preservation as their primary objective.

    Either which way, TSA continues to allow any and all of this to go on. We know very well that your employer is capable of quickly and effectively disseminating information -- when the patdown rules changed for kids, for example, patdowns of non-disabled kids who didn't otherwise alarm stopped on a dime. What is happening here, Rugape, is that, by failing to actively protect passengers' rights to film, the TSA has instituted a backdoor no-film policy that screeners can enforce at their discretion. This is factually what is happening, even if you haven't been briefed on it.
     
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  18. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    You could, but you won't - because not one of the plausible explanations casts your co-workers as anything but lackwits at best.
     
  19. RB

    RB Founding Member

    TSA seems cowardly when SSI claims are used to protect certain things from public scrutiny. Nothing about taking pictures at a TSA checkpoint is security sensitive. Misconduct on the part of TSA employees is what is being protected.
     
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  20. FliesWay2Much

    FliesWay2Much Original Member

    The clerks figure they can intimidate 90+% of passengers into turning off recording devices by whatever lies and threats are necessary. For the remaining ~10% who continue to record and make fools of the clerks and cops, they know that nothing will happen to them and, they might even get a passenger arrested. They view it as making examples of bad passengers, which further adds to the intimidation.
     
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