Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Jul 2, 2011.
Men's News Daily: TSA: They’re Too Busy Turning Us Into Sheeple To Catch Anybody
Question: What kind of a man knowingly surrenders his own daughter to one of us government workers to be molested, standing by passively even as her private parts are fondled while she screams “Daddy Daddy, please help me!”
Answer: an American man.
I speak only to you men when I say you gutless cowards will be lining up to hand over your wives and daughters in our airports, it will happen hundreds of time each day across our USA. You had better start explaining to your children that we government employees are allowed to touch their private parts whenever we want; it will make the whole thing a lot less dramatic. Seriously, the 1st time is always the worst. The next time you get molested will not feel as disturbing as we accommodate you to our abuses.
This is what I've been saying for oh-so-long. They so busy getting their grope and scope on that they've turned their checkpoints into the most insecure spot in the airport. They've made it less safe than ever! Average passengers don't really know what's expected of them, TSO's aren't really sure what the rules are. Nearly disrobing to fill bins at the belt with passengers barking at each other orders, TSO's barking orders at each other and passengers... I could go on and on, but those checkpoints are CHAOS! Chaos is never safe or secure. Not ever.
I'm all for security really. I'd like a nice documents check to make sure no one is stealing from the airlines like our little Nigerian friend. A metal detector pass is good, if you fail it, I'm not even against wanding. I am pretty tired of liquid restrictions and I'm tired of shoes off (those floors are nasty), but if it makes the TSA feel like they're doing something, whatever I can live with it, I'm annoyed, but I can live with it. Everything else the TSA thinks they're doing is CRAP though.
Don't they know that the flying public is calling them on the carpet? Don't they know that we feel less safe now than we ever did?
You know what one of the funniest things I ever saw was on the very last flight I took before I stopped flying in July 2010?
I was seated next to a woman on a flight from JFK to SEA who I judged to be in her late 50s early 60s. She was carrying on some really oddly shapped, flat nylon bags. As we were stuck on the tarmac waiting for a nasty rain squall to pass, we started to chat. The conversation evetually came around to her bags... turned out they were "competition boomerangs" She had 4 of them, ranging from the standard wood to a lightweight carbon fiber and two that looked like they were made of a hard brittle plastic. They're freaking weapons! LOL. I commented to her "wow, I'm surprised you got those past security" she kind of chuckled and said, "ya, they aren't really bright in there and don't really know what they're looking at." *facepalm* So I took the next step and asked "are they dangerous?" she kind of looked around and said "with the right person throwing them they are" Considering she was a competitive boomerang thrower, I didn't need to ask anything more.
The conversation got even funnier, because I was doing some bead embroidery, I like to keep my hands busy... I got to the end of the row I was working on and I clipped my thread on a pendant I was wearing around my neck. It's a round disk of two pieces of brass, with a great big round razor blade sandwitched between the layers. She asked me how I cut that nylon fishing line. I showed her my "pendant" and she said, oh that's convenient and looks pretty safe, what a great idea. And I said "ya" then flipped it over to show her the screw on the back to take the metal plate apart so you could replace the blade inside. The blade replacements were in my carry on bag. No one at the TSA has EVER caught my stainless circular razors around my neck or in my bag. Not in over 20 years. I never go anywhere without it. *facepalm* The two of us chuckled that we were a veritable middle aged lady terrorist cell. LOL. I mean should we be laughing about our contraband? Or should we have been concerned. All I know is it verified the TSA is a joke.
The idiocy at the TSA is so baffling.
Except that millions of Americans think they are safer. They are:
d) subservient at heart (authoritarianism and subservience are flip sides of the same coin) and like to be told what to do
e) all of the above.
And anything can be made into a weapon. A fist can be a more potent weapon than anything the TSA is confiscating.
As for "the idiocy at the TSA is so baffling" -- it's not baffling when you realize it's not about security. I've been saying it for years and I won't stop saying it. None of this is about security. It's about power. It's about control. It's about grooming and conditioning a credulous populace to accept ever-more-invasive, ever-more-intrusive measures, no matter how base and degrading, all in the name of "security."
That's why I quoted that guy above, the commenter at another sit: "Seriously, the 1st time is always the worst. The next time you get molested will not feel as disturbing as we accommodate you to our abuses."
And that's why I'll again quote a past monster, Josef Mengele:
"The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it."
Regarding choice d above, there are far more of these people than one would think.
I apologize if I've shared this story before. I was in line behind a guy at a national deli chain one day. When it came his turn to order, he looked directly at the cashier and said, "What should I have?" People like to be told what to do. Makes no sense to me.
And yes, the haystack has become so unbelievably big, there is no possible way to manage it. TSA has painted themselves into a corner. The diaper incident proves it. The Nigerian stowaway proves it. There's so much going on, they don't even know. Mark my words, incidents such as these will be on the rise.
TSA at San Jose, CA didn't appear to like words like scrotum, testicles, and perineum being said out loud. Figured he was an adult and could handle it. He did manage however to avoid coming in contact with any of those areas.
barbell, yes, these incidents will be on the rise, but don't underestimate the cluelessness of the population or the nefariousness of our security overlords. They will use classic Divide-and-Conquer tactics, mark my words. Certain classes of people will get hassled less and less or else become entirely exempt (they'll never admit this, of course; it will always be denied). That's already what's happening with the proposed tiered system, the so-called "Trusted Travel" program. It's ripe for abuse, it penalizes those who aren't frequent flyers or just don't want to give biometric data to Uncle Sam. It's ethically indefensible. Maybe we could just cut to the chase and, in honor of the Color Code Threat Alert system of yore, slap a big ol' orange sticker on all the "risky" travelers -- yeah, history has never shown us anything like that before!
And yes, it finally dawned on me that some people like to lick the authoritarian boot. It's simply not true that everyone wants to be "free" -- some people fear freedom, fear too much choice, fear having to make decisions for themselves, fear life itself. For these people, authoritarians are a godsend. And the obverse is, of course, also true.
Heard of a college student going to a fast food place who just stood in line waiting for the counter clerk to tell him what to order. For the inexperienced traveler airports can be very intimidating what with the noise, hustle and bustle, chaos, etc. Some people handle that well and manage to roll through unscathed. Others hate it all and arrive at their destination a mental wreck. The nearly continuous stream of unrelated PA system announcements do little to either inform, but instead assault the already weary travelers.
And, AngryMiller, I think the situation is partially by design for TSA to throw people off so they don't question "the rules". It's also because, as an organization, they are so incompetent they can't actually manage an efficient, effective process.
Now, to be clear, I don't think it's by design some nefarious grand scheme to trash the Constitution. I think the organization is run by a bunch of incompetent mental midgets who couldn't find a true threat to aviation if it was sitting on their desks. As a result they purposefully have designed a process that obfuscates, confuses, and generally creates chaos on purpose. The "keep 'em guessing" strategy isn't really to keep the terrorists on their toes, though I don't doubt some members of the organization truly believe it does, it's to keep the Public from figuring out the whole thing is a farce.
Add to this mix that some people are so dumb they're just hoping someone will tell them what to do, put them in an unfamiliar environment, and you have the perfect recipe for the TSA of today.
AngryMiller, yes. And throw in a hefty helping of fear -- "The Terrorists! The Terrorists! The Terrorists Are Out To Get Me!" -- and you have the perfect situation for our overlords to exercise control over willing subjects.
The PA announcements remind me of one of those bad futuristic sci-fi movies where big brother's latest instructions are being blared over the loudspeakers. However, I have one advantage over most people -- I can turn my hearing aids off & create my own private cone of silence.
LOL. Getting to the point at which I need hearing aids. Too much is getting lost and friends and family are tired of repeating everything. Becoming the Mr. Magoo of the hearing loss community with inappropriate responses to others.
Same problem, it was getting to the point of making things difficult at work. However, as my friend monitor pointed out when I first showed up w/ hearing aids (had to hold everyone up briefly while I changed batteries at the Strawberry Festival DO), 95% of what I missed I didn't need to hear anyway. What I need now are intelligent hearing aids that filter out that 95%.
Sort of like the filter a wife says her husband has? Lol.
I guess I don't think it's useful to call people sheep or stupid. Most people are decent and want some reasonable security measures.
What concerns me is the systematic nature of it, de-sensitizing people, not only to their loss of Constitutional rights, but by crossing the line into their intimate physical space into really profound subservience and loss of human dignity.
The effect is Mengele-like, even if such a chaotic bureaucracy is no product of German engineering.
It can be frustrating, but I just flat-out reject blaming the travelling public. Certainly the candidates need to be speaking about TSA directly, (not about e.g. the TX measure), and hopefully we get a court injuction asap.
The ad hominem attacks don't usually work. Pointing out how their behavior is reprehensible and disgusting does work. Shine the light of truth on the darkened corner and the roaches run for cover.
KrazyKat, I tried this respectful approach at first. For a long time. It didn't work. So now I've adjusted my approach, depending on the conversation, on who I'm talking to, on the context. I might pepper my comments with sarcasm, mocking, reverse-ridicule (god knows I've had to put up with enough ridicule -- from people who, frankly, haven't given this any thought and don't even fly, so they don't know what's going on).
I've got armloads of empirical evidence to back me up. But people who succumb to fear first and the rational parts of their brains later don't care about empirical evidence. It doesn't get through to them. What does sometimes get through to them is a rhetorical jolt. We discussed this on another thread -- or maybe this one earlier? -- it's all a blur :>) ! I think we have to use a variety of rational, emotional, and rhetorical means to make the argument.
One thing I won't dignify with a respectful response is ignorance. People who shoot off their mouths without having any idea what the TSA is actually doing -- no, they should either educate themselves before they speak or shut up.
There's one other category -- people who don't mind being groped by strangers. I admit I don't understand this mentality, but I'm not going to discount it. I also believe there are far fewer of those people out there than the naysayers would have us believe. Far fewer. But I'm not going to dismiss those who really feel that way. That's a measure of respect I'm giving them that they sure as (expletive deleted) aren't giving me and those of us who do mind it.
On the other hand, it's futile to try to manage & control the vocabulary that people use to discuss a subject.
At one point I got into it with one of the mods in "that other place" over the use of "gate rape". She was adamant that it's usage diminished the experience of women who had actually been raped -- never mind that the expression was first coined by UA pilots in 2002 and widely used in the media. We're not going to play that game here.
In addition, I would remind people that this is a discussion forum for all aspects of travel safety and security. Although a lot of us (myself included) would like to see TSA reigned in or scrapped and are working actively towards that end, it's not an objective of the forum itself.
Lisa, hats-off, I'm a firm believer in operating/communicating at every level.
But I do wonder how many of those "then don't fly" comments are really just trolls.
I think most Americans--on this July 4th-- believe TSA is ridiculous.
I also believe the President's supporters may be the biggest obstacle to doing something more sensible right now.
I think most of them are just mindless sheep, or as Lenin would have put it -- useful idiots. Many of them won't come around until they themselves or their families have been abused, and perhaps not even then.
Yes, I used "TSA" as unfair shorthand for the "scope and grope" business...
Separate names with a comma.