Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Frank, Mar 5, 2013.
You have an odd notion of "comical."
So how do the airlines explain how pilots are using iPads for electronic maps, approach plates and other air navigation aids?
The simple fact of the matter is that modern avionics are a whole different bird than the tube systems of the 50's and 60's. New testing needs to be undertaken to determine if interference is even possible with modern day consumer devices.
Does a person have to turn off their insulin pump for takeoffs and landings? Honest question, I don't know the answer.
ForeFlight Mobile for iPad & iPhone is the perfect pilot companion: on the ground, or in flight.
Beautiful, full-screen weather maps; complete airport data; plates; TFRs and AIR/SIGMETs; moving map with VFR/IFR charts and data-driven maps; and much more make ForeFlight Mobile your permanent Second-in-Command.
edit to add:
Another data point.
Flight attendants are a group that's almost as drunk on power as freedom fluffers.
Only because they don't get to claim "sovereign immunity" like the thugs at the TSA.
A White House petition to reverse this minor relaxation of TSA screening rules is gathering steam pretty quickly. Reported that airlines, their associated groups, and TSA will be meeting tomorrow to discuss reversing the decision.
The sheer lunacy of the types they allowing but saying others are not. In my opinion a locking blade knife is safer then say a swiss army knife that could close on its own.
That petition is stupid, the rules should have never been put in place as another 9/11 will never happen, as anyone stepping out of line is taken down by the passengers without FAMs or TSA. The only effective changes since 9/11 is hardening the cockpit doors and not cooperating with the aggressors, beyond that is bull & Lies.
I get your point about attention span for safety but also giving a passenger all that luxury stuff (all that fully loaded shiny stuff in the fist class pod) is just as much of a distraction.
I never understood the entire prohibs list, the pocket knives and small sharps and such may have warranted controls right after 9/11 until the policies could be changed and the doors hardened and such, but after that, there is simply no reason for it IMHO. If we are allowing 7" screwdrivers and other tools like them, what difference is there by adding blades to say 7" in overall length? Anyone with training or a sharp mind and determination can wreck a handful of people with an ink pen, or even better yet, a computer bag, or some of the purses that the women in my family carry (have you seen the size of some of those purses out there?). I agree that large blades and guns and well.... WEI should be on the prohibs list, but the little stuff is just clouding the screening process. Same goes for the LAG, I have always disagreed with that particular program, and think that we have the capability to test those items if the need is there, it should be a simple relaxation, right? Not so much, in many cases, any changes to the lists would have to pass congressional muster and get their approval before being implemented. Go back and read some of what Kip Hawley says after leaving office. Changes of that magnitude were shot down several times by congressional mandate. I am certain that this will become a hot button issue for a couple of more weeks, and we will see either a complete/partial reversal due to the pressures/decisions of the houses of congress, or it will whimper out and go through without much fanfare.
It would be a miracle if that petition goes anywhere. I think there have been only 3 petitions to reach the 100,000 threshold since January*. This one got off to a fast start but it will start to lose steam, unless there is a huge push by flight attendants to garner signatures. (A petition started the same day to end DST has almost as many signatures at the knives petition.)
One of those three, was a petition against the new regs about unlocking cell phone; the other 2 were so strange as to make me question who actually signed them:
Unfortunately, the White House site doesn't say how long it took a petition to reach the threshold. I get the feeling that it took the cell phone petition a month to reach 100,000 signatures.
I don't think the petition is the main focus this time. It's the political power of the airline industry.
Troubling to me is the meeting between TSA and the airlines, pilots, flight attendants and others. TSA blows off Congressional hearings yet they will meet with the airline industry. This issue is getting air time with conservative radio talkers. Don't know about the other side. I have a bad feeling that a reversal, complete or partial, will be coming out soon. I still don't understand the uproar over small knives and hardly a word about allowing up to two golf clubs per person in the cabin. Pistole is in a tough position on this one. Tick off the airlines and all of its sub components or do something that is truly a step forward for security screening. So we will see what wins out, politics or reasonable security methods.
A step forward would be resignation.
If I thought they were that bright, I'd think TSA came up with the list knowing they'd get shrill pushback, manufacturing "support" for their wasted billions and fleecing of travelers' goods.
Had not considered that TSA might do this with the intent to point fingers and say, "see it's not us".
I think it's far more likely that the airlines just found out what happens when they pay the Danegeld.
Too bad I didn't know you when I was a FA for USAirways; you could've gone to recurrent training on my behalf every year. (It always felt like being in summer school to me, probably because the training center in PIT was in what used to be an elementary school)
Seriously, keep in mind that its the FA union leadership that is making a big deal out of this, not the rank and file membership. Sara Nelson, AFA International Vice President, is the one making the loudest noise. She's stated in the past to the news media that 9/11 is "intensely personal" because she had friends that were killed on flight 175. She's letting emotion cloud what should be facts and common sense.
Need proof? Here's her testimony before the US Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Homeland Security just one year ago: (PDF warning)
Seriously? Cue the laugh track. Sara, did you know that the Government Accountability Office has stated that security is no better now than it was before 9/11? Well, we do have over ten times the cost and the erosion of our freedom and rights, so I guess we have that going for us.
Okay Sara, I'm typing this slowly so you can comprehend it: 9/11 did not happen because of lax security, it was because of complying with the demands of the hijackers and giving them access to the cockpit.
This isn't the first time AFA has lied and tried to generate fear. In 2005, the TSA announced they would allow things like screwdrivers, certain types of scissors, etc. AFA launched a shrill petition website, LeaveAllBladesBehind.com, complete with a picture of various knives that the TSA had no intention of allowing into the sterile area.
That petition went nowhere, just as this one should, and somehow we managed to not have blood running down the aisles of commercial aircraft in the last 7 years.
Anyone have the link to the GAO comment unfavorably comparing the TSA to the pre-9/11 screeners? I had one, but it's apparently defunct.
Probably. I have a few of the pdfs including one about 12-18 months ago where the GAO reported serious problems at TSA. I think it was a few months after the 10th anniversary of 9/11.
When was the one you were looking for released?
I found it.
U.S. Airways is joining the discussion ...
ABC News: US Airways Joins Delta, Asks TSA to Reconsider Knife Policy
US Airways CEO Doug Parker has asked TSA Administrator John Pistole to “reconsider” the decision to allow certain knives back into the cabins of commercial aircraft. In a letter dated March 11, Parker writes, “US Airways fully supports the continuous review and amendment of TSA policies. We also understand and support the risk-based assessment employed by the TSA. However, this review and policy amendment process is most effective when it is conducted in a collaborative way with airlines and their flight crews. “In particular, seeking input before implementing a change in policy that might place out flight attendants’ safety at risk would have provided a more thoughtful path to the desired outcome of secure and safe air travel.”
The TSA appears to have a real problem with asking for input... like the public comment period on the body scanners, for example...
The only reason airline CEOs are asking the TSA to reconsider is so they can appear to be "doing something for our employees" which doesn't cost anything.
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