U.S. drones deeply unpopular around the world

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Lisa Simeone, Jun 14, 2012.

  1. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Salon/Glenn Greenwald: U.S. drones deeply unpopular around the world
    You'll have to imagine a chicken-and-roost emoticon here.
     
  2. DeafBlonde

    DeafBlonde Original Member

  3. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    couple the summary execution by drone, the killing of nearby innocents by drone, and the medieval and worse torture the US government visits upon its captives, and you see exactly who the evil empire is. It is the US government. Anyone with a soul should be extremely shocked and sickened by how Padilla is treated TO THIS DAY! with acute sensory deprivation, treated worse than a dog, and how Manning has been treated with forced nakedness, extreme cold cells, and isolation. Captivity for deeds done is one thing, and probably deserved; vicious treatment like this causes the captors to lose their own humanity and turns their bosses into monsters.

    The days of overwhelming US governmental power are drawing to a close. The whole world, including those living under its shadow in the various united States, will breathe a collective "good riddance" at another example of how great power has completely corrupted something that once was good.
     
    DeafBlonde likes this.
  4. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

  5. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    From that last link:
    (Other than the fact that "impacted" is not a verb unless you're talking about teeth, goddamnit!), translation: we have to guarantee profits to the military-industrial industries.

    And then we have this:
    Do I believe them?

    Eh. Why should I?
     
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  6. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    And another related one, also from Secrecy News:

    Pentagon Lists 110 Potential Drone Bases in U.S.
     
  7. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    This is probably the biggest privacy/surveillance issue that I see on my horizon. Obviously there's a huge issue with our physical safety, but my day job only focuses on privacy/surveillance.

    I think that if we allow drones to fly freely over cities, eventually politicians and police will want them armed.
     
  8. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Exactly. There's no way they're going to keep them unarmed. They think we're idiots, that we don't see what's going on.
     
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Wishful thinking? Whole world?

    Diatribes & hyperbole like this make me want to yawn. The world will change, but probably not in the direction you envision.
     
  10. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Build a bunker to sleep in at night. You can even telecommute from it during the day.

    Aside from the privacy issues, I foresee serious safety issues from drones that are not properly maintained & flown.
     
  11. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Wonder what the charge would be for shooting one down?
     
  12. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Hmm?

    Sorry, can't spend time in a bunker. I have clubs to go to at night.

    I think there will be huge safety issues even if they are properly maintained and flown. Accidents happen.
     
  13. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Have you considered relocating to Paris? You could open clubs in the catacombs safely out of reach of the drones.

    Properly maintained and flown, they will no different from commercial aircraft, which are also trending towards fully-automated operation, also known as RNP (Required Navigation Performance). The problem will be keeping the amateur flyboys' hands off the controls.

    I see a lot of value in drones for some things, e.g. search & rescue operations. It's other uses (and misuses) that make me nervous.
     
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  14. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    As many times as I've been to Paris, I've never made it to the catacombs. Or the sewers, which you can also tour. There's just too much to do. They always get put on the back burner. And now, alas . . . .
     
  15. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    The catacombs are very cool - they were a 'must see' the first time I went to Paris. I know you're all shocked by that. ;)
     
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  16. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    I must be missing the joke. Why would I do this?

    With the exception that they're fitting them with powerful cameras and may one day be armed. But otherwise, yeah, much the same. There is no place in a free society for hovering spy drones. I'm going to go out on a limb on that one.

    As for the safety aspect, I'm skeptical.

    I'm with you on the search and rescue operations aspect. I think uses like that are highly beneficial. But -- that's not how they're going to be used (primarily). They are going to be hovering around in backyards looking for people doing drugs. A secondary use? Chasing down super-dangerous suspects that they can then kill via tasers attached to the drones. The cops can say they weren't trying to kill the suspect, only that they were trying to incapacitate the suspect so that cops could then arrest him/her with less danger to the cops. Look and see how trigger-happy cops are now with their tasers. Why would you think it would be any less of an issue with drones?
     
  17. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Not really a joke -- you get more room with less digging, safely underground out of reach of all drones. Who knows what's under Paris?

    You're not out on a limb but given that there ARE going to be legitimate uses for drones, you have to distinguish between the privacy issues (bad uses) and safety issues. Drones falling out of the sky at any rate faster than other aircraft should not be tolerated.

    Tasers usually don't kill. It's a serious risk that cops & the manufacturer try to deny, but still it's not a weapon designed to kill.

    Drones as we know them aren't that accurate. They work by leaving craters several feet across.

    Now a miniature drone that can quietly fly up close & tase someone? I see a lot of potential for that, as well as abuse. You're going to have to work to manage their use (unlike tasers, where the genie just got out of the bottle & refuses to go back in).

    The problem with tasers in general that they should still be treated as deadly force, with the cop getting a brownie point for using a taser instead of his .40.

    Technology is going to move forward, with us or without us. The challenge is to management and control it, and the real challenge there is to manage and control the police who for all practical purposes are already out of control, often answering only to themselves or to other police agencies.
     
  18. Sunny Goth

    Sunny Goth Original Member Coach

    Somehow I just don't see me living in an underground bunker even if said bunker is really a cool catacomb.

    Depends on how far back you want to go. During the Cretaceous it was under the sea, so I would imagine you'd find shells and other fossilized sea creatures. :)



    It's not a weapon designed to kill, but tasers have killed many many people, so I'd rather not see a process that automates their use.

    Yes another reason not to use them in cities.


    I generally agree.


    Yes, it will.

    I'd rather see certain uses of drones forbidden -- and I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to want.
     
  19. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Go ahead and fly them domestically... political dolts don't surprised when they become a target like the stop sign in the middle of nowhere in the county.

    Probably discharge of a firearm inside of the city limits (in cities). They will come up with some BS terrorism charge like they always do.

    They will have to pinpoint where the round came from and boomarang is not installed on drones so makes it even harder. Supressing a rifle isnt that hard so unless you a using tracers not likely to be tracked and that drone becomes apart from from a rapid deceleration event.

    Personally the flying of armed drones domestically would be a very bad Idea as politicos will learn the hard way that taking bribes and kickbacks (that's how i see political "donations" and super "pacs") from corporations not listening to there citizens who elected them have the power to make there life (and of the people they took bribes / kickbacks from) a costly (expletive deleted).
     
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  20. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Perhaps thinking things through a bit could help. Military power is based on economic power, is it not? So if our economics are crumbling, the military will follow it down sure as night follows day. I still remember watching the economic collapse of the Soviet Union, resulting overnight in the parking of the Soviet fleet at Sevastopol, where it was left to rot or be sold off ship by ship to pay bills. With highly complex systems, even small changes can ripple through to cause large effects. Ours, the most complex society in history. What happens then if the changes are large ones, in such a system? We simply don't know where the bottom is going to be.

    We have such a massive level of debt, unpayable entitlements, and such a worthless, inflated currency that our entire financial system is being forced into a reset, despite the desperate and vain attempts to avoid it. You can see it happening in the eurozone: Greece has rolled over, Spain is rolling, Italy (Italy, which is borrowing money at 6% in order to bail out Spain who pays them back at 3%), and the rest of the eurozone next. Clearly, the end game is looking like a matter of months now. Greece the worst, with increasing numbers of people without power, without homes, without food, without medicines, with public suicides and babies left in the streets. You can yawn and go back to sleep if you wish, but I'm not so sure our landing will be any softer than that of the Greeks.

    The rosy scenario is the one where the collapse leads us back to the virtues of the past with federal power replaced by local and state power; agree that this may not happen or even be the most likely. Another possible scenario is where the greatly weakened central government, though crippled, is still capable of turning on its own people with a vengeance. But the least likely scenario of all is that the status quo continues where we all stay fat, dumb, and happy. That is not going to happen.
     

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