[unnecessary personal comment removed]

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Doober, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Dear god. I didn't know about your experience, Travel-in-Medic. I'm so sorry.

    I did a post about this very thing -- the health risks -- back in November at the Cogblog, where I was ridiculed. In fact, it was that post that marked the "turn" I would call it -- when my co-writers and regular readers started turning against anything critical of the TSA/DHS or critical of the National Security State. I soon became persona non grata. Here's that original post:

    November 27, 2010
    Scabies, Lice, Ringworm, MRSA, Fungal Infections, Hepatitis?
  2. mikemey

    mikemey Original Member

    Maybe we should submit them.

    The checkpoint is no different than any of those areas you discussed. Soon as you touch a pax, you should be chaning your gloves, period. Make it part of your routine.

    And for god sakes, don't keep gloves in your pocket. Lord knows what's been in your pocket. I'll tell you what I do: I keep 2 pairs of gloves in my turnout gear (I'm a volunteer firefighter who doesn't run EMS calls, but you never know) in a 35mm film canister. Sure, that's not the best, but its better than your grubby pocket exposed. And if you don't use them, change the gloves out of the canisters once a month.

    I know if I saw gloves come out of that I might not insist on going to the box. But that's just me.
    TravelnMedic and Cartoon Peril like this.
  3. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member


    Im not a germaphobe as I deal with some of the nastiest bugs out there at work on a daily basis. I just limit unnecessary exposures to a minimum, and TSA keeps ramping up the exposures to the public all the time for no good reason.

    The reason I got bent so badly on this one is because of her attitude mainly but that her blue gloves where black as they had been worn so long, plus my experience with having to be on $15K antibiotics and loosing all the skin on my hands factors into it. Considering the lack of sanitation at Checkpoints(when tile & grout) you know when it was installed it was white is now gray/black) really makes you think. The gloves & swabs i have had tested and the results from TSA personnel & CP in the past i have every right to be suspicious of where those gloves have been, and have them change them. To be fair I have swabbed other public spaces and they have come up with a lower contamination factor then a TSA CP, only a truck stop bathroom came to the level of the average CP. Ill dig up the the swab data and post if you want

    Yes i do wipe off/clean my IDs & cards on a regular basis, then again I rarely get asked for ID for anything including alcohol, so TSA is the only place i really have to present ID. POS terminals I dont have to give my card up to swipe it, and i dont demand they to put on gloves either. Then washing my hands or hand sanitizer is just instinct from working in healthcare for so long.
  4. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    When I researched this issue, it was clear that an ordinary pocket was no place to keep gloves. Where any TSO touches any passenger, the TSO should change the gloves prior to doing so, and should obtain the fresh gloves from the manufacturer's box. Also the TSO should disinfect the hands once the old gloves are removed and before putting the new gloves on. This is because it is not possible otherwise to hygienically change gloves.

    Now, I don't see how any agency can conduct 60,000 searches a day (3% of 2,000,000 passengers per day, per TSA's claim), which involve thrusting the hands into the trousers or in the hair, without taking these basic precautions.
    Lisa Simeone and mikemey like this.
  5. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    You can also be punished for asking.
  6. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    The fear of being branded "uncooperative" is always there.

    Also, when you go to the doctor, do you think to ask the staff there to change their gloves? No, it's automatic with them. In fact, if you had to ask, you probably would conclude it was time to get a new doctor!
  7. Martin

    Martin Original Member

    I'm truly baffled by what you wrote. It's mind boggling to me that something like that is possible at an airport in the USA.

    From your experience, would you say it is beneficial to know the "key words" to use (like using the term "Texas Penal Code title 5 chapter 22 section(s) 22.01 &22.07" when you did), to get the LEO's attention? Would it be a good idea to come up with a cheat-sheet for every state, just to know the proper lines to use? For me, it sounds like I should read up on the Illinois penal code, since ORD will be the next place I'm flying into/out of...

    It seems disturbing that travellers not only have to be up to date with the ever changing list of what's ok in carryon luggage, and then deal with the TSA person who makes up their own version of the published rules (been there, done that) - do we now also have to read up on the specific legal rules of the State we fly into, in order to make a LEO understand we're not just another disgruntled passenger, who had his snow-globe taken away?

    I should probably fly to the States less often (or not at all) - but "Mrs Martin" will most likely have an issue with that...

    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  8. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    The reference to sterile gloves was a doff and don timing example, not normal everyday use. Furthermore outside of a autoclave or a surgical suite a sterile enviroment is pretty much impossible. Im more concerned about where the gloves on your hands have been and where the next pair is coming from (IE better be from the box, not your pocket), and when the last time the bins, belts and other surfaces were cleaned, which based on my observations has been a while. Your example of going through Jane Doe's dirty laundry are the reasons why you need to change them as cross contaminating everything, especially if there going from pawing through someones dirty underwear to patting down someone down and touching there bare skin, face, hair since TSA doesnt seem to make it a training point to change gloves everytime you touch someone else or there property.

    Oh trust me I have submitted more then a few comments to CDC and OSHA about TSAs practices, and they are well aware. TSA PPE misuse were a topic of discussion at a infectious disease conference last year and my comments would be extremely pleasant compared to the comments/discussion in the panel discussion that included people from OSHA, CDC, NIH and most of the major research hospitals in the country and a few international institutions as well.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    But we were talking about ID checkers.
  10. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I believe CDC & OSHA disavow any authority over TSA.
  11. Caradoc

    Caradoc Original Member

    Was she checking IDs ten minutes before then? It's my understanding that the TSA employees rotate through their incompetencies.
  12. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Yep, checked bag got searched also. And no, there is not a darned thing that we can do about the baggage clerks.
  13. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    You never used the word "gloves", not once.
  14. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Several years ago, I corresponded with a very forthcoming person at CDC. While this person said the CDC would never make any statement contradicting the TSA, the person completely agreed that TSA practices probably do lead to transmittal of disease, some of them potentially deadly.
  15. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Lisa - pretty much and what you listed in that blog entry is small beans compared to some of the organisms that came up in swabs. I just call it like i see it and some people dont like that as they are happy with there heads buried in the sand singing la la la.

    Martin - The LEO got curious when he heard me yell and things get quiet all of sudden, the officer happened to get there quicker then the supervisor and I spoke to the officer first before the smurf did and voiced my complaint concise and to the point in such a manner that he knew I wasnt BSing. As for the Texas penal code I know this well because I live and work in the state and medical/legal is a recurrent continuing education topic as its so easy to get sideways with the law when it comes to EMS and treating patients. Cheat sheets would help if you want but unless your the type not to back down to anyone it might end up counter productive.

    It is sad that travelers have to constantly keep up with the ever changing list of BS from TSA, and not to mention TSAs penchant for pulling asinine rules out of thin air at a moments notice, even when the information came from TSAs website less then 3 hours ago, or was said on the TSA blog yet the idiots still hadnt gotten the memo or able to buy a clue.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  16. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Mike - all things considered thats a pretty good method for keeping them from being contaminated in bunker gear. #like
  17. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Good nut crackers & body cavity checkers are hard to find. It's unlikely that she was rotated to the ID desk from the groperia.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  18. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    "The groperia"! I love it!!
  19. Bart

    Bart Original Member

    Sorry folks, but I can't get excited over the germophobic comments made in here. I'm satisfied with the notion that a TSO will put on a fresh pair of gloves at your request even if some of you aren't.

    I'm genuinely puzzled at the suggestion that I tried to dodge a question. I guess what amuses me is how some of you spend time to dissect my comments and divine some hidden agenda and then post an entire comment devoted to your conclusions. Hey, chill out...it's only the internet! I might have misunderstood the real intent of the question, and if so, that's on me. But it's NOT anything done with malice or ulterior motive. I came back and filled in the missing pieces. If it appeared as if some time elapsed, guess what: I have a life. I spend it doing other things than haunting this or any other internet site. I strongly recommend some of you turn off the monitor, walk away and do something enjoyable.

    I'm only one man. I'm really not worth the energy some of you spend to portray me as some evil henchman out to get you and your cookies.
    NotaCriminal likes this.
  20. Cartoon Peril

    Cartoon Peril Original Member

    When one touches the hair or under the clothing of another person, one should change one's gloves prior to doing so and disinfect the hands. That TSA refuses to do except upon request is a stupid and insensitive policy.
    mikemey and Elizabeth Conley like this.

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