War Criminals of MN

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by KrazyKat, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Send this guy back to the Ukraine. Too bad it couldn't be Poland...
    Commander in Nazi SS-led unit linked to atrocities living in Minnesota
     
  2. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    The headlines are over-sensationizing this. Let's put it in perspective.

    He's 94 now, which means he was 25 in 1944. "Highest ranking is not going to be very high for a 25 year old. In our military I doubt you'll see very many, if any, 25 years holding a higher rank than 1st lieutenant; exceptions have occurred in wartime with battlefield commissions & promotions.

    By all means ship the (expletive deleted) back somewhere, but at the end of the day he's still just a pawn, albeit a slightly larger pawn than average.
     
  3. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    not a pawn. hands-on evil at that level.
    women and children burned alive, stuff like that
     
  4. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    But still a pawn, just like countless other equally evil creatures. Almost 70 years after the war, all that's left are the little people. There aren't any big catches left to be made.

    I'm not saying he shouldn't be given the boot & left to rot in prison for the rest of his life, only that the story should be viewed in perspective. If he had been caught in the 40s or 50s, his name would hardly have made it into the press, just one of hundreds tried, convicted & imprisoned or executed.
     
  5. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    I'm with you on headlines which might sound like he was near-high command.

    What I choke on is calling him a pawn. He was a decider at the company level for one of the worst of the worst. These sadists took great liberty in the particulars of carrying out their anti-Polish mission. No guns to their heads. Not simply evil, but near freelance enforcers of evil. My family was "liquidated" by these monsters.
     
  6. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    How much time did Calley serve?
     
  7. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    To the best of my recollection (it's been a while) zippo other than house arrest mostly pretrial. Maybe he can accompany this guy back to Europe?

    I'll stick with the word "pawns". WW II resulted in tens of millions of casualties. Outfits like this were little more than useful idiots doing the bidding of far greater evils. The sad thing is that the worst this guy will ever see now is a comfy geriatric prison ward until he dies of old age.
     
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  8. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Of course I thought of Calley:
    Just can't let the thugs get a free pass--blue gloves, rogue cops--why would such murderers be less culpable?
    Nice spin, jerk. I was taught too: "never forget."
    No, it wasn't Nazi chain-of-command, it was the 'Ukrainian Self-Defence Legion' having fun with ethnic/nationalist cleansing. Useful for the east, then co-opted by the west, if anything that shows their agency. No pass for a death squad leader, whether his faction was played by the Sovs or Nazis.
    Happy belated trial, Karkoc.
     
  9. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    I wonder if the kid was bright enough to read the memoirs that his father so brilliantly :rolleyes: published?
     
  10. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Really good write up here ...

    "Pawn" status, yes -- he was only a lieutenant and took his orders from an SS major, Siegfried Assmuss.

    Two of his underlings serviced prison time in Poland, one of them died in prison. It's time for Herr Karkoc to lead by example. :D

    UK Daily Mail: Nazi commander pictured enjoying his quiet life in America wearing a WWII HAT: Former SS officer 'whose unit burnt villages filled with women and kids' at church picnic in Minnesota
    • Michael Karkoc, 94,was officer in SS-led Ukrainian Self Defence League and later in SS Galician Division
    • Karkoc's next-door neighbor said he has known the Ukrainian immigrant for many years, and was stunned to learn about the Nazi past
    • Nazi SS files show he and his unit were involved in 1944 Warsaw Uprising
    • In 1949 Karkoc denied any military service to US immigration authorities
    • He lives in Minneapolis and worked for a nationwide construction firm
    • Pictures on his church website show him at a Father's Day picnic shockingly wearing a National World War II Museum hat
    Though Karkoc talks in his memoirs about fighting anti-Nazi Polish resistance fighters, he makes no mention of attacks on civilians. He does indicate he was with his company in the summer of 1944 when the Self Defense Legion's commander - Siegfried Assmuss, whose SS rank was equivalent to major - was killed.

    'We lost an irreplaceable commander, Assmuss,' he wrote about the partisan attack near Chlaniow.

    He did not mention the retaliatory massacre that followed, which was described in detail by Malazhenski in his 1967 statement used to help convict platoon leader Teodozy Dak of war crimes in Poland in 1972.

    An SS administrative list obtained by AP shows that Karkoc commanded both Malazhenski and Dak, who died in prison in 1974.
     
  11. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Someone should give the old man a pistol with one round.
     
  12. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Garage closed engine runnng
     
  13. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Too pleasant, too fast.
     
  14. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Your solution? Taking him to trial would take a couple of years and at 94 he might die naturally while waiting. At this late stage there are few good options. Perhaps taking the christian path and forgiving might be best.
     
  15. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    In this case I would greatly prefer Mastro Titta's Vatican-sanctioned version of the Christian path: When Mastro Titta Crossed The Bridge
     
  16. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    Can't ask the victims' families for forgiveness if he doesn't acknowledge the crime. My interest is more along the line of truth-telling. Sounds like an educational process in the old country would benefit his son too.
     
  17. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    Won't work these days unless it's a really old car.
     
  18. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Why not, still puts out carbon monoxide as exhaust.
     

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