What If The Worst Happened

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by FetePerfection, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I would like to take some comfort in this. However, because this solution is coming from the same folks who thought it anywhere close to reasonable to perform prison-like custodial searches on innocent men, women, and children simply traveling at the airport, I am not optimistic that any solution from you folks will be workable. Whatever threat matrix is devised from you folks will probably result in a LOT of secondaries. And we'll be right back where we are now. I hope that is not the case, but the same folks are making the decisions, are they not? That is like hiring Ryan Leaf to play quarterback for you and hoping that tomorrow he'll turn into Michael Vick.

    Let the FBI do this work, do the vetting, do the searching and have to defend it under the same criteria in court that they have to operate when they do their searches on innocent people. No more of this "admin search" bullsh*t where it gives you a blank check to feel any damned thing you want for whatever reason you want. Let the TSA go back to bag screening and confiscating water and nail clippers. You can keep the BDO program if you want, so long as it doesn't result in your hands in my groin.
    barbell, Lisa Simeone and Doober like this.
  2. 4nsicdoc

    4nsicdoc Original Member

    And the thugs who follow his orders. And who praise him for being a "stand up guy" because he lets them indulge in their urges to stick their hands down another person's pants.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  3. darwin76

    darwin76 Original Member

    Even including terror-related deaths, traveling by airplane is still substantially safer than long-haul driving on a mile for mile basis. 2010 saw 32,708 automobile fatalities. That's 2726 people per month - almost one 9/11 - on a perpetual, ongoing basis. At what point to the tens of billions of dollars in equipment, wages, and lost passenger time at the airports be declared pointless in the pursuit of diminishing safety returns? At what point do we decide it would be better to spend our efforts improving road safety in areas which matter, instead of ratcheting up the pointless tyranny at the airports?

    Our government is busy suing a trucking company for taking the keys away from an alcoholic truck driver.

    Road travel has so many areas for safety improvement, and we don't need to lose our rights to do it. Sadly, if the DHS was charged with lowering fatal accidents on the roads, they'd turn the nation into a giant stop and identify DUI checkpoint, tossing everybody's trunk for good measure.
    Doober, Lisa Simeone and barbell like this.
  4. rockon

    rockon Original Member

    A few comments.

    I travel outside the US a fair amount - first and third world countries.

    I have never ever heard barking at any non-US checkpoint.

    I have rarely (and only in smaller third world airports) seen the confusion and 'Thousands Standing Around' that I routinely see at US checkpoints.

    Wait for a secondary? Out of sight of my belongings? Only in the US.

    Dedicated tub stackers? Dedicated 'stand in the WTMD to block it' security officers? Checkpoint personnel whose sole function seems to be to appear and observe any grope of an attractive passenger?Only in the US.

    Large airports/lots of pax? Non-US airports seem to take that in stride, along with a much broader range of non-native speakers.

    Inefficient checkpoint arrangements? Spare me the comments about limited room and need for additional funds. All major checkpoints have been/are being restructured to accommodate the NoS's. One would think that might have been a good time to evaluate checkpoint flow before installation - you know, little things like making it possible for a pax to keep their bags in sight at all times (we wouldn't want to ask the TSOs to change their process and use common sense to accomplish this).

    I don't believe that airport security is any better paid elsewhere than in the US (probably not nearly as well). I could be wrong, but I don't believe it is common for non-US checkpoint workers to spend hours each and every week in mandatory 'training'. I don't believe (although I could be wrong) that other nations' spend as much of their airport security budget on 'training' and 're-training' as we do. If they are, they are certainly getting better value for their money.

    For the same reasons others have stated, I don't think Pistole was the right man for the job. I would definitely like to see someone in the position who flies commercial regularly and who is handicapped or disabled (ostomy bag, breast cancer survivor, wheelchair bound). If TSA can show respect to folks in this situation at the checkpoint, we'll all be better off.
    snapstoo, DeafBlonde and Lisa Simeone like this.
  5. rockon

    rockon Original Member

    Don't be silly. You are suggesting that TSA might be held accountable?

    The outcome would be to burden the pax with a few more costly (in $$ and lost rights) 'layers' of security.
    Lisa Simeone and Fisher1949 like this.
  6. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    I've been waiting for the opportune moment to share this little datum point. Thanks for providing it!

    ATL has 3 checkpoints, all servicing all concourses. The North Terminal checkpoint is a somewhat "hidden" gem originally installed for AA, which was right behind their check-in counters, and dumps right into their gates back when they retaliated with a mini-hub. I like to use it because the lines are generally faster, and it's somewhat easier to SDOO.

    So about a week ago I noticed something new. Along the passenger side of the carry-on baggage x-ray machine, running the entire length of the belt, is a solid, metal wall about two feet tall from the belt, so covering the area about 3-5 feet off the ground. The TSA side of the belt remains completely unhindered. These walls were installed virtually overnight, this after 3 NoS had been put in place, one for each screening lane (there are a total of 5 lanes: one is NoS only, the other 2 share space with WTMD).

    Now, not only can you not see your belongings at all as part of a deliberate checkpoint redesign, you are completely barred from accessing them while TSA has free access to them. :td:
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  7. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    IOW, they will rummage through your bags out of your sight. All the more reason to lock each and every carry on.

    P.S. Pls. try to get a picture if you can.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  8. Fisher1949

    Fisher1949 Original Member Coach

    ATL has been in the top five worst TSA experiences since they showed up. Not surprising they found a way to make things worse.
  9. FriendlySkies

    FriendlySkies Member

    Any chance you could draw a diagram of this?
  10. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    I could, but I don't have a scanner. :(
  11. FetePerfection

    FetePerfection Founding Member Coach

    Hey...you're a rich doctor now - go get a scanner :)
  12. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    You should see the "guarantee" costs on the loan. That's zapped it all up!
  13. FriendlySkies

    FriendlySkies Member

    Use something metallic to draw it, and then ask TSA to scan it and save you a copy... ;)
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  14. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach


    I'll try and take pictures, but ya'll know how difficult that's going to be. :mad:
  15. CelticWhisper

    CelticWhisper Founding Member

    You know (expletive deleted)'s bad when my first reaction was to read the words "Don't have a scanner" and think "GOOD!"

    *le sigh*
  16. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    It just goes from bad to worse. Really, all I have left anymore is black humor.
  17. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Well, I have a scanner, but it puts files in a weird, clunky format that computers not on our network can't read.

    But, as FetePerfection points out, now that I'm a rich doctor I can have the practice buy me one! Ummmm, to keep at the office, of course...
  18. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    This last trip was my first encounter. All I could think was, "Really? this is necessary? REALLY?"

    Then I got to thinking, there are reports that at airports that are notorious for delaying you for opting out, people have started to hold their belongings, thus gumming up the line, until the groper appears. In a way, if you aren't prepared, this is totally no longer possible. Little do they know, it'll just back up the line further back. They really are that stupid.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  19. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    Do you suppose it's the TSA version of a blast wall? :D
  20. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    I at first thought it might be a lead shield to protect screeners because ATL was one of the airports in the recent EPIC FOIA where there was concern of increased risk of cancer. Then I looked closer and realized it was on all lanes and that it was between the public and the bag scanners. So if that was the intent, it's actually increasing the scatter of ionizing radiation within the screener workspace. And that's when I remembered that, yeah, TSA is that stupid.

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