Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by barbell, Jul 15, 2011.
...is certainly good for the gander.
Woman gives TSA a taste of their own medicine at PHX T4.
Yep, she gets arrested for doing what the TSA perverts are doing to travelers everyday. I say allow travelers the right to give what they get to the TSA employees, that might change the extent to which angry and retaliatory gropes by power hungry smurfs take place.
Are people finally being emboldened enough to resist (Andrea Abbott in Nashville) and to retaliate (Yukari Mihamae in Phoenix)?
Let's hope so! This week will really be a turning point if that is finally happening. I've long wondered what the tipping point be, where will people decide they've had enough of this nonsense & push back. Things are only going to get uglier & uglier if TSA doesn't get their perverts under control.
This reminds me of the World According Garp, where we have now reached the retaliatory phase: Garp bite dog.
They're charging her under Class B Felony.
My feel-up might constitute a Class A under Washington law, but I'll pass on replying in kind.
People have had ENOUGH. I don't blame them. I don't want to hear of anymore passengers physically assaulting agents though, that makes us as bad as them. Two wrongs don't make a right. But, the reaction this woman had was understandable. If the TSA keeps this up, it's going to happen more and more. They need to protect their employees and their passengers. The touching and irradiating on both sides needs to stop HERE.
I view it as a perfectly reasonable response on the part of the abused passenger. Personally I choose no longer to fly so that my wife & I have about 0% chance of being assaulted by TSA's perverts. But for those who still want to fly or must fly, as they say, a good defense is a good offense.
This just the beginning. I predict that it's going to get a lot uglier until TSA reins in their perverts.
I took my last flight one year ago on July 28th 2010 when I left Venice Italy and flew to JFK, then to SEA. In Seattle I have stayed since then, with the exception of a couple of car trips to Portland Oregon.
I really need to fly to work effectively. I work in an IT department for a Capital Lending firm that has offices in a lot of states. I really really need to go to Arizona at some point. I can't legitimately drive to do that; it just takes too long. Luckily, my company won't force me to fly, they won't take the risk. There are people in my department who will though but I'm going to spend hours with them on the phone walking them through the technical tasks I need completed down there. It's a waste, but it MUST be this way. I don't believe my company will hold it against me come review time. We had one employee assaulted back in December... HR won't let it happen again. We have a choice at least and for that I'm grateful. This is part of the reason I was happy to take a massive pay cut to come to this company after working a far more financially lucrative job at a really really really big software company before. I'm glad I made the job switch when I did... I don't think my former company would have been so accommodating.
Prior to 2010, I flew at minimum twice a month, and sometimes a lot more. I want to go to my job in Arizona, and Nebraska, and California, and Denver, but not until the TSA removes the scope and grope.
While I understand this woman's reaction.... I don't like the idea that one assault deserves another. I can't promote that kind of vigilantism, if that was indeed what is was. We don't have a lot of details yet.
My first thought when I read this was that I can envision TSA handcuffing victims until the grope is over.
Leaping Frog, can you take the train? With some driving on either end? I know it would be a l-o-n-g journey, but you could get a lot of work done on the train. I have a friend who lives in Tucson and has several times taken the train to Portland. He says it has these big picture windows. But I don't remember where he actually boards the train. I think he might do it in stages -- Tucson to LA, LA to SF, SF to Portland. Anyway, Amtrak does do this route. It's called the Coast Starlight. Here's one of my friend's posts about it (warning: he's gay and unabashed, so there is the occasional photo of a nude dude on his blog, though not at this post):
Also, I'd really like to know how your HR dept is handling this, how they came to their decision, any pushback, etc. And is your colleague who was assaulted willing to have me include his/her story in my Master List, even if it's with initials only, not full name?
I support what the lady did but also understand she will likely end up with a criminal record which could be a problem. I wish fighting back was as simple as giving back what TSA gives but we all know that won't work over the long turn.
We do have opportunity to keep our electeds aware of the growing problem so do write letters, make calls, send faxes, and when able participate in town hall meetings hosted by your electeds. Make sure they know a problem is afoot and hold them accountable for TSA because they created this monster.
It seems there's always a "Man bites Dog" story somewhere.
WRT travel policies, in my industry heavy travel was a staple in the budget for years and I flew 35-45 weeks each year for nearly thirty years. As security became increasingly onerous even pre-2010, particularly in terms of arrival times, we began to look for alternative methods. We've resorted to using webex and other conferencing tools along with other modes of transportation. It doesn't eliminate air travel but drastically reduces it. While the employer can demand that an employee travel, the mode of travel is open to debate. Often driving is a better option if there are multiple stops on the itinerary and far less costly than air dare, fees and a car at each stop.
This is the natural consequence of the government's decision to lower the nation's standard of behavior.
As a direct result of TSA thuggery, our standards of behavior are going to decline and boundary violations of all kinds are going to become increasingly common.
The TSA threatens our quality of life on many, many levels. Their world is dark and depraved, and I deeply resent that we all must dive into their depravity in order to travel.
That could be a great resource. I suspect there have been many HR departments forced to deal with this issue. This would push the dialogue into the business arena and highlight the impact that this is having on commerce.
I take the train from Seattle to Portland a lot, my sister lives near a Max line, and I can get off the Amtrak train, catch the Max and walk to her house. It actually takes about the same time as driving does, but it costs a little less when all is said and done (I drive a V8, not cheap for long road trips haha). So I'm pretty familiar with the train system. As much as I wouldn't mind taking the train to Phoenix, it's still really not very practical.
The company I work for is pretty small... about 300 people, but about 2/3rds of them are commission only sales staff. They conduct their own business and don't have a lot to do with HR in general, they can't be forced to do too much and can always take their clients and client lists somewhere else. The rest of us are employees in operations. And, only handful of us need to travel. So there's nothing too formal written out in terms of policy (for anything lol) just that they have indicated that after one of our sales staff was taken to a private room in December, and made to partially disrobe, all because she was wearing a skirt, that there would be no risk taking. The gal who was assaulted left our company and went into another line of business shortly after the incident I have no clue where she is now. Our HR department just said if you don't want to fly, you don't have to. We understand. It's a small, close-knit, employee owned finanicial institution so we tend to run a little more graciously than other larger and more process oriented companies.
This lady's actions aren't appropriate. However, neither are those which brought us to this point.
That said, what, I think, often gets lost in arguments surrounding the 2nd Amendment is what the amendment says.
Yes, it literally says we have the right to bear arms. However, the deeper meaning here is that The People have an unalienable right to protect themselves from a government bent on abusing them. The TSA and its lackeys seem intent on changing the very nature of our humanity as a people. They have said it themselves, that we must give up privacy in exchange for security in order to protect freedom. What? That doesn't even make any sense. "Recognizing that terrorists are willing to manipulate societal norms to evade detection" is a load of bull. Therefore, the only natural reaction against government intrusion on our bodies is to react in kind. There is no other way to handle this situation in the American culture.
TSA has provided absolutely no relief in this matter. Letters about offensive and punitive screening are responded to with nonsense, if they are acknowledged at all. Recourse through both the legislative and judicial branches is proving grossly ineffective. It, therefore, is the responsibility of The People to rein this nonsense in.
It is telling that we've had 2 such incidents in one week. The TSA has created a situation that is now becoming unhinged. They need to take responsibility for what they have done, and they need to take immediate, clear, and direct steps to stop it or these instances are only going to increase.
The chaos at today's TSA checkpoints is of TSA's doing, and their doing alone.
The impact of lost productivity, business liabilitiy, and basic intereference with commerce, are another set of issues to raise, out of the EPIC decision, in the upcoming comments.
We're practically neighbors, LeapingFrogs. Funny, I thought I was safer by NOT going into a little room with the TSA. Silly me.
Go, AMTRAK! I've found I can do some good concentrated work on the train, not all of it is wasted, but I understand your type of work is very different from mine. Just wouldn't want the bad luck of to being T-boned in the desert somewhere.
Right on, Barbell!
And could be their undoing as well. Let them bring their nonsense replies into court, and lay their operations bare.
Truer words never said. Remember Mihamae's name. Here is a woman 61 years old who takes nothing from anyone. How many of us would be this brave? Even I capitulated by following the instructions of the Chicago cop. I hope they have a defense fund set up for her as I would give her a week of my per dium to help her.
This might force TSA to release some of the SSI as evidence.
They aren't. It is a 'hey you knew this job entailed travel when you hired in." Boss is even less sympathetic with comments along the lines of "hey man, they have to provide security to the air travelers." Any rebutes to his head buried up to his shoulders in his lower instestines goes ignored.
desperate times call for desperate measures. If her breasts were getting pulled by that TSA clerk, then by all means.
the government sees it only their way, and are pushing and pushing the people to the breaking point on stupid things like this. and they are blind to the reservoir of ill will they are creating. If the expected monetary and financial collapse occurs, there won't need to be much of a catalyst. If the people have little left to lose, and face such continued oppression, you will see effective resistance. The uprising in Egypt didn't come from street people. It came from the middle class. People who gave up their mercedes and porsches and took to the streets to fight an unbearably corrupt regime.
I agree one thousand percent. That statement from TSA should have chilled the souls of every one of us. TSA flat out said "we won't be bound by societal mores in carrying out our mission". They will not be bound by OUR sense of dignity, OUR right not to have our body fondled and eventually penetrated (cavity searches), or anything that they think they can get by with. So if we have nothing to our person that is off limits to them, what else do we have? Are you ready to grant the government total ownership over you? "well, you're not actually a slave, just administratively".
If we do not get these evil practices and this mindset stopped, these cruel and inhuman administrative searches will be extended to more places and then there is only left a resort to violence, which will make what this apparently overgoaded female passenger did look minor. If the TSA continues with what it does, there will come a time where it will not be safe to be a TSA clerk.
I will contribute to that woman's defense fund.
Separate names with a comma.