When Should You Call 911?

Discussion in 'What's On Your Mind?' started by Elizabeth Conley, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member


    Was calling 911 a good idea? Could Mrs. Hicks have transported her husband to the emergency room faster and safer without police presence?

    This is hardly an isolated incident. Police lend chaos to accident scenes and get into silly arguments with rescue workers and concerned family members, causing serious delays in the treatment of patients. We take it for granted that we should call 911 when an emergency arises, but perhaps it would be smarter to place the injured or sick person in a vehicle and move him/her promptly to the nearest emergency room.

    Police have murdered and maimed suicidal people whose concerned family members have called police for help. I'm betting those families wish they'd never called the police. Then there are cases like John Loxas' murder, which resulted from a conflict with a neighbor who called police in to help her settle her dispute with Mr. Loxas. I doubt the neighbor expected Mr. Loxas to be shot by a sniper while holding his infant grandson.

    I think we all need to rethink "911." The "help" we get could turn ugly, or even deadly.

    Women who are pulled over or approached by lone officers "for no discernable reason" may well have valid concerns. They know other women have been unlawfully detained and assaulted.
    How many assaults did he get away with? It seems to me like reports of this sort of behavior trickle in from all over the country every month. No wonder women are creeped out when a lone officer approaches them or pulls them over for no discernable reason. It is creepy. It makes you wonder if Patricia Cook's murder would have been avoided if whoever "saw something and said something" worrisome about the middle-aged matron's presence near the church-school had decided to approach Mrs. Cook and talk to her instead of calling police.
  2. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Really bad idea in many cases. Treatment these days often starts in the field with ambulance crews linked to medical staff at hospitals. You're much more likely to bleed to death or have your heart attack turn fatal with your approach.

    What society needs to do is to take control of these police agencies and make them work for us and report to us and be accountable to us and get rid of all these rogues and bullies.
  3. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    I agree, but I'm worried. If I have a heart attack and my 15 year old daughter calls 911, will my 13 year old son and 15 year old daughter be terrorized while I struggle to survive? I want to get rid of the rogues and bullies, but the authorities seem to think just about any misbehavior on the part of a LEO is justifiable. Neighboring municipalities hire the bad apples who do get fired. No clear statistics are available to help citizens calculate how severe the problem is. I'm very uncomfortable.

    In my entire life I've never been the victim of a serious crime. As a rule people aren't even rude to me, much less combative. I have extensive martial arts training which I've never needed - and I like it that way. I am less afraid of the "criminals" than I am of the police. At least I'm allowed to defend myself from civilian criminals. What defense is there against a criminal LEO?

    As a Realtor I've repeatedly tried to rent a nice ranch house across from a police officer's home on a cul de sac in an excellent neighborhood. No dice. It's been empty for over 9 months. (The average home rents in 55 days.) All of my prospective tenants were upstanding citizens with no criminal records, great jobs and excellent credit records. Each of them saw the police cruiser in front of the house and the huge, incessantly barking German Shepherd in the back yard before politely finding an excuse not to rent the home.

    I'm sure they're all thinking there's little chance the officer would restrain his aggressive dog, and that little good could come from having a potential bully with real "authoritah" living across the street. Law-abiding people don't trust police officers any more than criminals do - perhaps less.

    As someone who knows plenty of retired officers, I'm a bit bewildered. It seems to me that we need to bring the young officers back to the responsible perspective on public service their predecessors had.

    Police in this city generally do a good job. If police around the nation shaped up a bit, I think trust could easily be restored.
  4. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    Good luck with that. Most everyone I talk to on the subject are badge lickers.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  5. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    Given the choice between living next to a cop or a crack house, the crack house wins every time.

    And I'll add one thing: being a fellow "first responder" is no immunity idol.
    phoebepontiac and TravelnMedic like this.
  6. TravelnMedic

    TravelnMedic Original Member

    Ill second that for the general public until they get victimized by a bad pig then its off a cliff.
  7. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    In Minneapolis a few years ago the local PD (which eventually ended up under federal court supervision due to an excess of rights violation cases) got saddled with a civilian review board. They were kicking & screaming that non-police couldn't judge them, but they lost.

    It can be done. Step #1 is to quite paying attention to defeatists who think it can't be done.
    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  8. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    The other side of this is reshaping the legal system to look at it from the citizen's point of view. As it is, judges & county attorneys just rubber stamp the police accounts. Keep an eye on the crooks in Maricopa county / Scottsdale -- it's about to happen again.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  9. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    Elizabeth Conley likes this.
  10. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    I've heard cops and their sycophants state time and time again that "civilians" can't judge their behavior. Since the police are supposed to represent us, we must judge their behavior. Their behavior must reflect our standards.

    I've had about enough of this "sheepdog" crapola. Most cops aren't sheepdogs, they're usually ankle-biting lap dogs or jackals. One think is certain, there aren't as many "sheep" in the general population as cops seem to imagine.

    Police paradigms beg for a citizen review board. I'd say it's their only hope.

    Here's exhibit A:


    ...which is a darn shame. I think charges for theft, assault, and vandalism are more appropriate. That's what these thugs are accused of, and if there's evidence then that's what they should be charged with. The total damage bill is very high. When an act of vandalism results in thousands of dollars in damages I would think the penalty should be pretty severe.

    When your home is broken into, you've been assaulted, your property has been vandalized and things have been stolen, then you file a police report. That is, unless the police committed all the aforementioned crimes. In that case I would tend to call my city councilman and ask him or her to come over with a camera and several witnesses, but that's just me. A citizen review board would be helpful.

    PS: I also think there must be some laws on the books about deliberately contaminating food and public indecency. Spitting into the coffee pot and urinating on the mail probably fall under state or local statutes against food tampering and indecency.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  11. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    There was a state cop who rented down the road from us and we were all very glad, most especially his landlord, when he moved out. Two big dogs roaming the property, outdoor lights left on all night long, loaded weapons easily available to him - I believe we all felt less safe with him living here.
    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  12. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Not me. I can't stand crackheads. It's like they've received a brain transplant from a blue crab. Crack turns people into stealing, lying, fighting machines.

    I don't think I'd see the police as a solution though. I've seen them raid a crackhouses. They make a great deal of sound and fury, but they leave all of the crackheads and most of the crack behind. There's only one thing worse than a crack house, and that's 20+ angry crack-hornets looking to punish a community for kicking over their nest.

    There are better ways to get rid of crackheads - and all 100% legal too.
  13. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Welcome to Chicago. :)

    On top of other reforms, citizens need to ability to pursue criminal prosecutions through their attorneys & under court supervision. That would render irrelevant the corrupt county & federal attorneys who always rubber stamp law enforcement activities.

    Another reform is licensing. If a real estate salesperson or broker screws up, they get censured, and/or fined and/or their license is revoked. There is no such accountability for law enforcement. A law enforcement officer who is responsible for repeated judgements and settlements (even where no fault is admitted) or repeated sustained right violations should find his POST credentials revoked.
    phoebepontiac likes this.
  14. We had some kind of drug house a few doors down for us a couple years ago. The occupants moved after two chicks OD'd there in the space of a couple weeks. Other than the body bags coming out, they had been perfect neighbors. Never a peep.

    ETA: Though, on second thought, we did have a crack/heroin head as our downstairs neighbor in an apartment in SF who was known to set his couch on fire. That was nerve-wracking. I guess it all depends on the druggies in question. Also, good to be in a detached building from them.

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