Woman jailed for not allowing daughter to be viewed naked or groped

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Mike, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    Mike, I've been busy over there trying to counter TSA Apologists Extraordinaires "vestevens" and "LeahMorsheim." They are relentless. (But then, so am I!)

    Anyway, I finally gave up. Posted over a dozen comments, on this and the earlier Tennessean article, with tons of facts, empirical evidence, then gave up. These people don't respond to facts.
  2. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    Lisa, you're doing a great job, though you're right, ignorant people just aren't going to see it. I've often thought about offering people like those 2, in particular, a refundable fare and escort through so they can experience it for themselves, and then cancelling the fare and then going home. I bet their tunes will change dramatically at that point.

    And, just in case it gets lost in the noise, I find this comment over there to be spot on:

    KrazyKat and nachtnebel like this.
  3. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    barbell, yes, that was a profound one. I'm glad someone is trying to appeal to individual TSA agents' humanity. But the power of conformity is so strong, I'm afraid very few are going to respond.
  4. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    If you're willing to put your hand up someone's crotch when you know they don't want you there, and they are guilty of nothing, and you *know* how offensive this is to them, well, you just have to be a special kind of person.

    Take a good look at who and what these folks are. Why do you think they are doing this job? That water's done flowed under the bridge a long time ago. Apealing to their humanity? Good luck with that.
    KrazyKat and Elizabeth Conley like this.
  5. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    This needs to be a tee shirt!
  6. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    The only good thing about the TSA is that the institution has managed to identify likely sexual assailants and corral them in one location for significant periods of time. If only we could travel without going through Trained Sexual Assault checkpoint, a public service benefit of the TSA would be realized.
    KrazyKat and nachtnebel like this.
  7. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    Very unfortunately, there is much more truth to this than we'd like to admit to ourselves. And it starts with a sexual predator at the very top, John Pistole. He gets his jollies every morning when he wakes up and thinks about all the crotches being felt over at his orders. It is "his" hands that are there. You're a special guy, John.
    barbell, KrazyKat and Doober like this.
  8. mikemey

    mikemey Original Member

    Wow Lisa, that one person really gave you the business. Pity she is is the perfect example of what our government wants us to do.

    That small micro-state in Europe is looking better and better.
    barbell likes this.
  9. Lisa Simeone

    Lisa Simeone Original Member

    I also posted a comment calling her out for her sockpuppetry. Using two names to pretend to be different people, to imply that there's more support for her position than there is, is deception.
    FetePerfection and barbell like this.
  10. mikemey

    mikemey Original Member

    I laughed so hard at the sock puppet comment my co-workers wanted to know what I was reading.
    barbell likes this.
  11. barbell

    barbell Coach Coach

    So, there's an interesting opinion piece by a criminologist on Discovery's website. While it's just a blog, evidence of more negative press against TSA. He gets some of the fine details of the incident wrong, but his overall take on the situation is correct:

    Lisa Simeone likes this.
  12. DeafBlonde

    DeafBlonde Original Member

    One of the "fine details" that he gets wrong is that the badge of the "toucher" carries no law enforcement authority; therefore, I conclude that the "toucher" should have been arrested instead of the "touchee."
    barbell likes this.
  13. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    As corollary, we "should" not live in a police state, (especially w/ fake police).
    barbell likes this.
  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Andrea Abbott's Aug. 1 hearing has been reset for Oct. 13.

    I'll have links in a few minutes.
  15. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    The Federal Thugs keep counting on Americans' short attention spans. Delay, delay, delay seems to be their favorite legal tactic.
  16. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    ABC News (AP news wire item): Woman to Fight Charges in Tenn. Airport Pat-Down

  17. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Such a delay is normal when an attorney gets involved in a case. The burden will now be on the state to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

    The "federal thugs" have nothing to do with today's events. It's a local case in a county court.
  18. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    You're right of course. Still, I don't like the way the local law enforcement officer acted as an enforcer for the TSA, and I think the state should reconsider. Who do they represent? The "People" vs Andrea Abbott just doesn't ring true.

    I know what I'd be doing if this were going on in my community. If a local prosecutor is pressing a case, it should be a case that somehow serves community interests and the law. That's what the job is supposed to be about.
  19. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    The local prosecutor probably hasn't even thought about it yet. They learned today that she wasn't going to cop a plea.
  20. Elizabeth Conley

    Elizabeth Conley Original Member

    Y'know Mike, it must seem like I'm arguing just for argument's sake. I'm sorry. I hold you in very high regard, and recognize your tireless service on this board.

    Would an ethical community want an innocent citizen to be frightened into "copping a plea" to ridiculous charges? Would a frugal community want to pay for a battle to defend itself against a civil suit?

    It costs a municipality money to prosecute cases. Shouldn't a reasonableness filter be put in place a bit earlier in the system? Did you see the video recording of Abbott's encounter with the Officer and the TSA employee? No sound was necessary. The body language was very telling.

    Remember Phil Mocek's (sp?) case? The prosecutor was undoubtedly embarrassed by the evidence that showed up in court late in the process. It looked like the goons had managed to destroy evidence, but they failed. When a "deleted" audio was recovered, the prosecution looked slimy. Worse, they lost.

    In this case there's no such excuse to offer the taxpayers. The video doesn't look at all good for the local police. You don't have to be an expert to read that body language, but an expert opinion will be heard. This is likely to end with great expense and no small amount of embarrassment to the local government. Most local governments are cash-strapped. Voters will get cranky.

    It was my fondest hope that the consequences of the Mocek case would be greater caution on the part of local prosecutors, and greater restraint on the part of LEOs. My hope was not realized. It looks like LEOs are acting more and more like "enforcers" for the TSA's nastiest bad actors. I wonder what it's going to take?
    KrazyKat likes this.

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