You asked for it: Independent Proof

Discussion in 'Aviation Passenger Security in the USA' started by Ron, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. Doober

    Doober Original Member

    That was my initial thought also. However, maybe this was done while the TSA was still under the illusion that Rapiscan would be able to come up with ATR for its machines.
  2. Mike -- A question, since you find this study useful, and you understand the science of the machines much better than I do. Are you not concerned about the fact that the study is based on models measuring radiation output, rather than a population sampling of some sort? In my (admittedly English major's) understanding of medical research, something needs to be tested on a number of subjects to determine its larger effect, and a range of effects are expected based on myriad factors, such as overall health, lifestyle, etc. I am perfectly willing to accept that the backscatter emits an extremely low level of radiation, but what I find troubling is the suggestion that, therefore, weekly or even daily trips through a backscatter machine are trivial for anybody and everybody, including toddlers, skin cancer victims, and pregnant women. I mean, pregnant women are supposed to be careful about eating fish and drinking juice even, and if there's no data on the effect of a probably innocuous herb or med on a pregnant woman, the default position of the medical community is "don't mess with it." Maybe I missed it, but nowhere in this study do I see a suggestion that further study should be done on more vulnerable populations. In fact, in several areas where further study should be done, like on the potential for the machine to malfunction and emit higher radiation, the study seems to say, "we don't really know, but we're pretty sure it's just fine."

    What do you think? I'm trying not to be knee-jerk about this one, but in my own reading it smacks of a study with a planned outcome.
  3. Ron

    Ron Original Member

    Wouldn’t have a clue Mikey, but then again you already knew that.

    Somehow I didn’t think that the “die-hards” would ever be able to accept any proof that defied their hard held belief’s, even if it is the exact type of proof they have been demanding.

    Feel free to ignore it. Ignoring facts is what this group is all about, right?

    Anyway, I’m out again. Its occasionally fun to come in here and see who is making the biggest fool of themselves, but to be honest you folks bore me. It’s the same irrational arguments over and over again with never a break for the truth. I won’t rub your noses in it, one would have to have a conscience for that to have any effect, and there aint none here.
  4. DeafBlonde

    DeafBlonde Original Member

    Pot. Kettle. Black.
    Elizabeth Conley and Doober like this.
  5. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    They're academics. Who knows what their motivations were. Maybe they were paid, maybe it was just because they can.

    This appears to be a reputable organization, I don't see anything sinister here. It's simply too late.

    And there are still other issues to be addressed anyway.

    An Ron is still incorrect that it provides "proof". It does provide more information with which to complete the picture.

    The CDC/Cyber twin tubes were like a gargantuan pair of twin CRT terminals with a common keyboard, with the data being constantly refreshed by dedicated peripheral processor program called DSD. Usually we left them on the "AB." display (A = system dayfile, i.e. log, on the left, B on right shows what jobs were running at each control point. More details here (scroll down to "Display Console").

    We also had personal computers before the world had ever heard of Apples & PC's. We just had to type "X.DIS" at the console and one of the control points would become our dedicated personal computer with the full resources of the machine at our disposal. The 6600 (designed by Seymour Cray) was the supercomputer of its era. Slower serialized version of the CPU used the same console. Ours was a 6500, which provided a pair of serialized 6400 CPU's. Our Cyber 73 (ran with the 6500 w/ shared memory & disk system) was an updated 6500 with fewer discrete components.

    Each mainframe was comprised of 4 bays of equipment (each bay being approx. 7' tall, 8' long, 3' deep).

    Power supply for this dual mainframe system (not counting extras like 24/7/365 air conditioning & water chiller) was provided by 3 400Hz motor generator sets that each drew roughly 42 amps @ 208V 3-phase. Do the math -- that's one big electricity bill!
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  6. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    It's always entertaining to have one of TSA's best & brightest stop by to provide some amusement. :)
  7. Just to be a tinfoil had devil's advocate here, a lot of reputable organizations have gotten corrupted or manipulated over the past decade. Congressional Budget Office and the Supreme Court come to mind as two. At this point I think it's good to trust but verify stuff like this.
  8. Doober

    Doober Original Member

  9. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member

    It's a professional organization all about radiology. They set up a 'Task Force" to address an industry *problem*--no tinfoil hat needed.

    (Then again, putting my tinfoil hat on;) : the beltway group has many 501c3 chapters, good for spreading the receipts around. If anyone cares to look, check the links in my post above).
  10. RB

    RB Founding Member

    This comment was directed to Mike. Not sure why qouted text didn't copy over.

    I had lunch with Admiral Grace Hopper many years ago. I suspect the two of you could have had a chat without me understanding a word.
  11. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    I'll stipulate that this is a legitimate study, as moot as it now is. Whether it is sufficient and is the last word on the subject can be debated by experts.

    The question is, why was this not done BEFORE subjecting hundreds of millions of persons to the radiation? That was pure recklessness, and shows the contempt the federal government has toward everyone outside of it.
    phoebepontiac and KrazyKat like this.
  12. KrazyKat

    KrazyKat Original Member


    My only quibble with your last sentence is diluting the blame across all the Federal government.
    There were specific contracts let, to take advantage of ARRA, leading policy. Persons involved from the beginning up to the present --- including those assuring recent gifts to Rapiscan: a big write-off on contract cancellation, no pursuit over faked test results, and no debarment--- all these individuals should be held accountable.
  13. Frank

    Frank Original Member

    You never had her correcting your coding sheets...
  14. Mike

    Mike Founding Member Coach

    Most people today wouldn't even know what coding sheets are were.
  15. DeafBlonde

    DeafBlonde Original Member

    I do! :) When I was a fledgling in the contract programming field (this is when you didn't have to have a degree to work such jobs), I was charged with typing the code into the mainframe computer from the coding sheets that the senior programmers prepared (as I was about the only one who could accurately type with both hands all 10 fingers). Once it was typed in, I also ran their code through the FTN4 the compiler and that is how I learned Fortran syntax.

    Thanks for the memories!
  16. RB

    RB Founding Member

    All 10 fingers, how is that possible?
  17. nachtnebel

    nachtnebel Original Member

    think binary
  18. RB

    RB Founding Member

  19. DeafBlonde

    DeafBlonde Original Member

    Uses thumbs to hit the space bar, and the zero (0) on the numeric keypad when keying in numbers. (both hands with 5 fingers each=all 10 fingers)
  20. RB

    RB Founding Member

    Back in the dark ages when I was in high school I was the only male in my class to take typing. So even though I'm no speed typist I at least knew my way around a keyboard early on and I can say that was one class thay served me well over the years. From typewritters to computers I have used keyboard skills constantly.

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